luisfernando
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que supone que le den un prestamo de 20.000 millones a AIG ?? que se salvara o se "salvara" por ahora?
*Tema mítico* : EEUU "nacionaliza" AIG para evitar colapso (17-9-2008)
- Autor del tema MNSV
- Fecha de inicio
Por ahora esto es lo que han ideado, lo público, para evitar la quiebra de AIG:
1. Permiten que las subsidiarias "avalen" a la principal por 20.000 millones.
2. JP Morgan representando a AIG y Goldman Sach figurando como una especie de director de prestamistas sindicados todavía por determinar se encargarán de proveer a AIG de un préstamo puente de hasta 70.000 millones para lo que ésta vaya necesitando mientras busca capital de debajo de las piedras.
3. Las agencias de rating se quedan calladitas por unos días y no dirán ni MU sobre AIG.
Otra noche larga.
Por lo demás:
1. Mayor bajada de las bolsas americanas desde el ataque del 11S. Han perdido casi los mismos millones (600.000 millones $) que deuda del Lehman.
2. Mayor inyección de fondos de la FED desde la misma fecha (70.000 millones).
3. Como bien intuía Marai, la FED acepta ahora "papelitos" (acciones) cotizados en bolsa de colateral (¿Admitirán Colonial y Fadesa? se pregunta el Banco Popular) y cualquier deuda corporativa o municipal.
1. Permiten que las subsidiarias "avalen" a la principal por 20.000 millones.
2. JP Morgan representando a AIG y Goldman Sach figurando como una especie de director de prestamistas sindicados todavía por determinar se encargarán de proveer a AIG de un préstamo puente de hasta 70.000 millones para lo que ésta vaya necesitando mientras busca capital de debajo de las piedras.
3. Las agencias de rating se quedan calladitas por unos días y no dirán ni MU sobre AIG.
Otra noche larga.
Por lo demás:
1. Mayor bajada de las bolsas americanas desde el ataque del 11S. Han perdido casi los mismos millones (600.000 millones $) que deuda del Lehman.
2. Mayor inyección de fondos de la FED desde la misma fecha (70.000 millones).
3. Como bien intuía Marai, la FED acepta ahora "papelitos" (acciones) cotizados en bolsa de colateral (¿Admitirán Colonial y Fadesa? se pregunta el Banco Popular) y cualquier deuda corporativa o municipal.
Última edición:
oligoqueto
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No es que le den un prestamo de 20000 millones, sino que le permiten coger esa cantidad de sus subsidiarias para hacer frente a los pagos. Algo que, en principio, está prohibido, pero que se les ha permitido como plan de viabilidad.
En cualquier caso, se salvará por ahora... por unas horas, quizás... y lo que venga, quién sabe.
Saludos.
En cualquier caso, se salvará por ahora... por unas horas, quizás... y lo que venga, quién sabe.
Saludos.
Pepitoria
Madmaxista
Interesantes impresiones
Desde hace un año lleva perdiendo mas de un 70% de su valor. Las operaciones en USA la han lastrado hasta lo que vemos ahora mismo.
Desde hace un año lleva perdiendo mas de un 70% de su valor. Las operaciones en USA la han lastrado hasta lo que vemos ahora mismo.
elefante
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Hace un año y poco esta acción rondaba los 70$. Ahora vale 4.76$. No ha perdido un 70, ha pedido un 94% de su valor.
Blanco y en botella. Es un muerto viviente.
Han bajado el rating de AIG
Bloomberg.com: Worldwide
AIG's Ratings Cut by S&P, Moody's, Threatening Fund Raising
By Hugh Son
Sept. 15 (Bloomberg) -- American International Group Inc.'s credit ratings were downgraded by Standard & Poor's and Moody's Investors Service, threatening efforts to raise emergency funds to keep the company afloat.
The ratings downgrades occurred after two people familiar with the situation said that the biggest U.S. insurer by assets is seeking $70 billion to $75 billion in loans arranged by Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and JPMorgan Chase & Co. to replenish capital.
AIG Chief Executive Officer Robert Willumstad has tried to raise cash to forestall debt-rating downgrades that could hobble the insurer. A ratings cut may have ``a material adverse effect on AIG's liquidity'' and trigger more than $13 billion in collateral calls from debt investors who bought swaps, the insurer said in an Aug. 6 filing.
Wall Street's biggest firms convened at the New York Fed for a fourth consecutive day, this time to discuss AIG, which sold the banks and other investors protection on $441 billion of fixed-income assets, including $57.8 billion in securities tied to subprime mortgages. AIG's shares plunged 61 percent today in New York trading.
``I don't know of a major bank that doesn't have some significant exposure to AIG,'' said Kenneth Lewis, chief executive officer of Bank of America Corp., in a CNBC interview. An AIG collapse would ``be a much bigger problem than most that we've looked at.''
AIG fell $7.38 to $4.76 at 4:15 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The company has declined 92 percent this year in New York trading, making it the worst performer in the Dow Jones Industrial Average.
Credit Ratings Cut
S&P lowered AIG's long-term counterparty rating three grades to A- from AA-, citing a ``combination of reduced flexibility in meeting additional collateral needs and concerns over increasing residential mortgage-related losses.''
The ratings assessor also lowered AIG's short-term counterparty credit rating by two levels to A-2 from the top A- 1+ rating, and cut its counterparty credit and financial strength ratings on most of AIG's insurance operating subsidiaries by three notches to A+ from AA+. The ratings remain on watch for a possible further downgrade, S&P said.
AIG's senior unsecured debt rating was downgraded by Moody's to A2 from Aa3. Moody's said in a statement that its decision was made ``in light of the continuing deterioration in the U.S. housing market and the consequent impact on the group's liquidity and capital position due to its related investment and derivative exposures.'' Moody's placed AIG's long-term and Prime-1 short-term ratings on review for possible downgrades.
Calling for Collateral
A downgrade of AIG's long-term senior debt ratings to A1 by Moody's and A+ by S&P would permit counterparties to make additional calls for up to approximately $13.3 billion of collateral, while a downgrade to A2 by Moody's, and to A by S&P would permit counterparties to call for approximately $1.2 billion of additional collateral, AIG said in the Aug. 6 filing.
``If either of Moody's or S&P downgraded AIG's ratings to A1 or A+, respectively, the estimated collateral call would be for up to approximately $10.5 billion, while a downgrade to A2 or A, respectively, by either of the two rating agencies would permit counterparties to call for up to approximately $1.1 billion of additional collateral,'' the filing said.
AIG has already posted $16.5 billion in collateral through July 31. A downgrade could also set off early termination of swaps with $4.6 billion in payments, AIG had said.
$20 Billion Lifeline
The Federal Reserve urged AIG to seek private capital and discouraged the insurer from expecting a loan from the central bank, according to two people with knowledge of the discussions. Goldman and JPMorgan are working with AIG to determine how much the New York-based insurer needs, said two more people, all of whom declined to be identified because negotiations are private.
The loan would involve temporary financing, a so-called bridge loan, through a syndicate of banks, and there's no assurance an agreement will be worked out, one of the people said.
``We're still working on a number of alternatives,'' said Nicholas Ashooh, spokesman for AIG. JPMorgan's Brian Marchiony and Goldman's Lucas van Praag declined to comment.
AIG was given special permission to access $20 billion of capital in its subsidiaries to free liquidity, New York Governor David Paterson said today. The move gives the insurer time to work on securing more capital, he said.
Writedowns
The insurer ``needs immediate access to capital'' and will be able to swap illiquid assets to free up holdings at its subsidiaries, Paterson said. Each time AIG uses assets as collateral for cash loans, the insurance department will examine the transaction to protect policyholders.
``We have seen some of the companies that serve as the bedrock of our financial system unraveling before our eyes,'' Paterson said.
The Fed has hired Morgan Stanley to examine alternatives for AIG, a person familiar with the situation said. Morgan Stanley will review what role, if any, the government should play in helping the insurer, said the person, who declined to be identified because the talks are confidential.
AIG may report writedowns of $30 billion resulting in its ``worst quarter yet'' for the period ending Sept. 30 if Lehman's bankruptcy leads to distressed sales of mortgage assets, providing lower market values for AIG's holdings, Citigroup Inc. analyst Joshua Shanker said today in a note. He downgraded AIG to ``hold'' from ``buy.''
Disposals Expected
The company may consider selling units including American General Finance, AIG's consumer lender, which could fetch more than $6 billion if the unit sold for twice its book value. AIG Investments could sell for more than $3 billion if it sold for 2.5 percent of clients' assets under management. The company's stake in reinsurer Transatlantic Holdings Inc. is worth about $2.25 billion, based on today's share price.
Bank of America analyst Alain Karaoglan said Willumstad, 63, should reconsider the decision to keep its aircraft-leasing unit, International Lease Finance Corp., which could sell for $7 billion to $14 billion.
AIG rejected investments from buyout firms KKR & Co., TPG Inc. and J.C. Flowers & Co., people familiar with the talks said. Billionaire Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Inc., is no longer talking with AIG about an investment in the insurer, CNBC reported today, citing people familiar with the situation it didn't identified.
Fannie, Freddie
The insurer raised $20.3 billion in May by selling debt and equity, diluting the holdings of long-time investors. It's ``very hard to predict'' if AIG will need more capital, Willumstad said on Aug. 7.
Last week, the U.S. Treasury seized Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two biggest sources of funding for U.S. mortgages, wiping out most of the value of their shares. AIG had $550 million to $600 million of preferred shares in the companies, said a person who declined to be identified because the insurer hadn't made a formal announcement.
Hurricane Ike, which struck Texas Sept. 13, may also pressure AIG, costing insurers $6 billion to $18 billion, the most since the record storm season of 2005, according to firms that specialize in gauging the effects of disasters.
AIG's former CEO and Chairman Maurice ``Hank'' Greenberg, who controls the largest stake in the insurer, wasn't involved in the company's planning Sept. 13 and yesterday and has ``repeatedly offered'' to assist the firm, his spokesman Glen Rochkind said yesterday.
Greenberg, 83, saw his holdings decline by $3.1 billion last week. He controls 11 percent of AIG shares through two investment firms and personal holdings.
To contact the reporter on this story: Hugh Son in New York at hson1@bloomberg.net
Last Updated: September 15, 2008 23:18 EDT
Bloomberg.com: Worldwide
AIG's Ratings Cut by S&P, Moody's, Threatening Fund Raising
By Hugh Son
Sept. 15 (Bloomberg) -- American International Group Inc.'s credit ratings were downgraded by Standard & Poor's and Moody's Investors Service, threatening efforts to raise emergency funds to keep the company afloat.
The ratings downgrades occurred after two people familiar with the situation said that the biggest U.S. insurer by assets is seeking $70 billion to $75 billion in loans arranged by Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and JPMorgan Chase & Co. to replenish capital.
AIG Chief Executive Officer Robert Willumstad has tried to raise cash to forestall debt-rating downgrades that could hobble the insurer. A ratings cut may have ``a material adverse effect on AIG's liquidity'' and trigger more than $13 billion in collateral calls from debt investors who bought swaps, the insurer said in an Aug. 6 filing.
Wall Street's biggest firms convened at the New York Fed for a fourth consecutive day, this time to discuss AIG, which sold the banks and other investors protection on $441 billion of fixed-income assets, including $57.8 billion in securities tied to subprime mortgages. AIG's shares plunged 61 percent today in New York trading.
``I don't know of a major bank that doesn't have some significant exposure to AIG,'' said Kenneth Lewis, chief executive officer of Bank of America Corp., in a CNBC interview. An AIG collapse would ``be a much bigger problem than most that we've looked at.''
AIG fell $7.38 to $4.76 at 4:15 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The company has declined 92 percent this year in New York trading, making it the worst performer in the Dow Jones Industrial Average.
Credit Ratings Cut
S&P lowered AIG's long-term counterparty rating three grades to A- from AA-, citing a ``combination of reduced flexibility in meeting additional collateral needs and concerns over increasing residential mortgage-related losses.''
The ratings assessor also lowered AIG's short-term counterparty credit rating by two levels to A-2 from the top A- 1+ rating, and cut its counterparty credit and financial strength ratings on most of AIG's insurance operating subsidiaries by three notches to A+ from AA+. The ratings remain on watch for a possible further downgrade, S&P said.
AIG's senior unsecured debt rating was downgraded by Moody's to A2 from Aa3. Moody's said in a statement that its decision was made ``in light of the continuing deterioration in the U.S. housing market and the consequent impact on the group's liquidity and capital position due to its related investment and derivative exposures.'' Moody's placed AIG's long-term and Prime-1 short-term ratings on review for possible downgrades.
Calling for Collateral
A downgrade of AIG's long-term senior debt ratings to A1 by Moody's and A+ by S&P would permit counterparties to make additional calls for up to approximately $13.3 billion of collateral, while a downgrade to A2 by Moody's, and to A by S&P would permit counterparties to call for approximately $1.2 billion of additional collateral, AIG said in the Aug. 6 filing.
``If either of Moody's or S&P downgraded AIG's ratings to A1 or A+, respectively, the estimated collateral call would be for up to approximately $10.5 billion, while a downgrade to A2 or A, respectively, by either of the two rating agencies would permit counterparties to call for up to approximately $1.1 billion of additional collateral,'' the filing said.
AIG has already posted $16.5 billion in collateral through July 31. A downgrade could also set off early termination of swaps with $4.6 billion in payments, AIG had said.
$20 Billion Lifeline
The Federal Reserve urged AIG to seek private capital and discouraged the insurer from expecting a loan from the central bank, according to two people with knowledge of the discussions. Goldman and JPMorgan are working with AIG to determine how much the New York-based insurer needs, said two more people, all of whom declined to be identified because negotiations are private.
The loan would involve temporary financing, a so-called bridge loan, through a syndicate of banks, and there's no assurance an agreement will be worked out, one of the people said.
``We're still working on a number of alternatives,'' said Nicholas Ashooh, spokesman for AIG. JPMorgan's Brian Marchiony and Goldman's Lucas van Praag declined to comment.
AIG was given special permission to access $20 billion of capital in its subsidiaries to free liquidity, New York Governor David Paterson said today. The move gives the insurer time to work on securing more capital, he said.
Writedowns
The insurer ``needs immediate access to capital'' and will be able to swap illiquid assets to free up holdings at its subsidiaries, Paterson said. Each time AIG uses assets as collateral for cash loans, the insurance department will examine the transaction to protect policyholders.
``We have seen some of the companies that serve as the bedrock of our financial system unraveling before our eyes,'' Paterson said.
The Fed has hired Morgan Stanley to examine alternatives for AIG, a person familiar with the situation said. Morgan Stanley will review what role, if any, the government should play in helping the insurer, said the person, who declined to be identified because the talks are confidential.
AIG may report writedowns of $30 billion resulting in its ``worst quarter yet'' for the period ending Sept. 30 if Lehman's bankruptcy leads to distressed sales of mortgage assets, providing lower market values for AIG's holdings, Citigroup Inc. analyst Joshua Shanker said today in a note. He downgraded AIG to ``hold'' from ``buy.''
Disposals Expected
The company may consider selling units including American General Finance, AIG's consumer lender, which could fetch more than $6 billion if the unit sold for twice its book value. AIG Investments could sell for more than $3 billion if it sold for 2.5 percent of clients' assets under management. The company's stake in reinsurer Transatlantic Holdings Inc. is worth about $2.25 billion, based on today's share price.
Bank of America analyst Alain Karaoglan said Willumstad, 63, should reconsider the decision to keep its aircraft-leasing unit, International Lease Finance Corp., which could sell for $7 billion to $14 billion.
AIG rejected investments from buyout firms KKR & Co., TPG Inc. and J.C. Flowers & Co., people familiar with the talks said. Billionaire Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Inc., is no longer talking with AIG about an investment in the insurer, CNBC reported today, citing people familiar with the situation it didn't identified.
Fannie, Freddie
The insurer raised $20.3 billion in May by selling debt and equity, diluting the holdings of long-time investors. It's ``very hard to predict'' if AIG will need more capital, Willumstad said on Aug. 7.
Last week, the U.S. Treasury seized Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two biggest sources of funding for U.S. mortgages, wiping out most of the value of their shares. AIG had $550 million to $600 million of preferred shares in the companies, said a person who declined to be identified because the insurer hadn't made a formal announcement.
Hurricane Ike, which struck Texas Sept. 13, may also pressure AIG, costing insurers $6 billion to $18 billion, the most since the record storm season of 2005, according to firms that specialize in gauging the effects of disasters.
AIG's former CEO and Chairman Maurice ``Hank'' Greenberg, who controls the largest stake in the insurer, wasn't involved in the company's planning Sept. 13 and yesterday and has ``repeatedly offered'' to assist the firm, his spokesman Glen Rochkind said yesterday.
Greenberg, 83, saw his holdings decline by $3.1 billion last week. He controls 11 percent of AIG shares through two investment firms and personal holdings.
To contact the reporter on this story: Hugh Son in New York at hson1@bloomberg.net
Last Updated: September 15, 2008 23:18 EDT
Starkiller
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Esto es la puntilla, parece. Tengo una duda... ¿Esto esta pasando porque no quedaba otra, o alguien esta presionando para bajar los ratings y que esto pase antes de las elecciones? Es que si no, no lo entiendo...
Esta mañana he visto en la CNBC que si hoy no consigue toda la pasta se va a declarar en quiebra hoy mismo, no se si es para presionar o es que realmente esta tan dolido, pero es preocupante da la sensacion que se ha abierto la caja de Pandora y esto no hay quien lo pare.
l'pollastrê
Madmaxista
Con todos mis respetos a la CNBC, yo tengo mis dudas de que dejen caer hoy a AIG. ¿Lehman y AIG en 48 horas? El carajazo sería homérico, ahí sí que nos vamos a tomar por ojo ciego.
Cuando el pollo del BoA ha salido diciendo que "no conoce a ningún banco que no tenga exposición a AIG", imagino que no se está marcando un farol.
En serio, Lehman es (era) rellenito y tal, pero AIG está un orden de magnitud por encima.... ojo que no digo que no vaya a caer, yo lo que cuestiono es que lo vayan a permitir hoy mismo, tan sólo 24 horas despues de lo de Lehman.
Yo siempre me he reído de los alarmismos de algunos foreros madmaxistas, pero si tiran hoy AIG os juro que me planteo ir al banco y sacar mis ahorros. Es que, señores, cuando pronunciamos alegremente las siglas "AIG" no alcanzamos a ver la verdadera magnitud que tiene ese tinglado.
A mí todavía me queda alguna duda, al respecto de hasta qué punto Wall Street está haciendo una detonación controlada (tiro algunos y me quedo con los que me interesan para purgar el sistema) o bien la situación está completamente fuera de control.
Aún no he visto a gente tirarse desde los rascacielos como en el '29, así que de momento juraría que aún guardan algo de control sobre la situación.
l'platanostrê
Cuando el pollo del BoA ha salido diciendo que "no conoce a ningún banco que no tenga exposición a AIG", imagino que no se está marcando un farol.
En serio, Lehman es (era) rellenito y tal, pero AIG está un orden de magnitud por encima.... ojo que no digo que no vaya a caer, yo lo que cuestiono es que lo vayan a permitir hoy mismo, tan sólo 24 horas despues de lo de Lehman.
Yo siempre me he reído de los alarmismos de algunos foreros madmaxistas, pero si tiran hoy AIG os juro que me planteo ir al banco y sacar mis ahorros. Es que, señores, cuando pronunciamos alegremente las siglas "AIG" no alcanzamos a ver la verdadera magnitud que tiene ese tinglado.
A mí todavía me queda alguna duda, al respecto de hasta qué punto Wall Street está haciendo una detonación controlada (tiro algunos y me quedo con los que me interesan para purgar el sistema) o bien la situación está completamente fuera de control.
Aún no he visto a gente tirarse desde los rascacielos como en el '29, así que de momento juraría que aún guardan algo de control sobre la situación.
l'platanostrê
las cosas a su cauce
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AIG baja un 10% en el fuera de horas... a este ritmo en breve cotizará en negativo... 
Saludos...
Saludos...
si cae AIG yo también sacaré la pasta del banco
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