Hablemos del Socialismo fabiano, el hermano no famoso del marxismo

Ilustración editorial de un lobo con piel de cordero sobre un escudo victoriano, símbolo del socialismo fabiano
RESUMEN DEL DEBATE · elaborado con IA

El marxismo se llevó los focos y la revolución; el socialismo fabiano se quedó con el método. Fundada en Londres el 4 de enero de 1884 —el año siguiente a la muerte de Karl Marx—, la Fabian Society nació como escisión de la Fellowship of the New Life, una sociedad utópica creada en 1882 por el filósofo escocés Thomas Davidson en torno a un programa llamado Vita Nuova, tomado de Dante.

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Pues eso.

Siempre se debate en otros hilos entre liberalismo o marxismo, pero resulta bastante llamativo lo poco que se habla del Socialismo fabiano (prácticamente es nombrado 4 veces contadas en el foro, una referencia en El último hombre occidental y poco más).

Gente como HG Wells o los autores de las 2 distopías más famosas: George Orwell o Aldous Huxley vienen de ahí. Un logo que es un lobo disfrazado de cordero que es toda una señal de que vienen a buena fe y tal.

Si el bolchevismo venía de Moscú, estos tan simpáticos que solo quieren perjudicarnos vienen de Londres.

Si el bolchevismo buscaba el gobierno mundial tras una toma violenta del mundo con la estrategia de la lucha de clases, estos buscan llegar al gobierno mundial pasito a pasito hasta la estocada final.

Pongo un articulito para amenizar la velada

The Fabian Society, which considers itself Britain's oldest political think tank, aims to advance the socialist cause by gradualist and reformist means. However, the society was actually an offshoot of another association called Fellowship of the New Life

Philosopher Thomas Davidson, who was born in Scotland in 1840, traveled to Italy and conducted research on the philosopher Thomas Aquinas, poet Alighieri Dante, philosopher Giordano Bruno and priest Antonio Rosmini. On his return to England, he began holding meetings and explaining his ideas to people with the aim of "reorganizing human life" and elevating community life to higher levels. Thus, he attracted a group of people who were fond of social reform and philosophy. Together with these admirers, they decided to establish a society in London in September 1882. The society was called the Fellowship of the New Life. Davidson had taken the title "New Life" from Dante's text “The New Life” (“La Vita Nuova”).

(imagen visible para usuarios registrados)Thomas Davidson. (Wikimedia)
Davidson developed a program for the society they founded and called it “Vita Nuova.” The program's goal was determined as "the cultivation of a perfect character in each and all" with the principle of “the subordination of material things to spiritual things.” The New Life program was like a new religion, God was love and meditation in silence was considered worship. It was forbidden to gossip and talk in a bad way. The concept of personal property did not exist. Marriage would be monogamous and for love only. Everyone was responsible for what they did. All titles, social inequalities and family prestige had to be given up. Everyone had to dress simply, but tastefully. There was no distinction between the genders. In this society, authority was dependent on principles, not people.

According to the program, members of the Fellowship of the New Life were to meet regularly. These people were to lead a simple life based on the predetermined sarracena rules and live a new life based on humility, love and wisdom. After this, they had to look for a suitable place to settle down where they could pursue this life together, form a community, encourage others around them to live this new life, offer courses and then gradually bring change in the society.
Young members of the Fellowship of the New Life with socialist ideas objected to Davidson, saying that this goal based on individual volunteerism was too utopian and would take a very long time. The arrival of the new life, that is, the new age life, had to be accelerated by scientific methods to be applied from the top down. But Davidson, who was selfish and reserved in his ideology, turned down their suggestions. After this, these members parted ways with the Fellowships of the New Life and formed their own group, that is, the Fabian Society, on Jan. 4, 1884, the year trinc the death of Karl Marx. Although they trinc different methods, both societies continued their friendly relations.

Wolves in Lambskin
The Fabians said that their guild was named after the Roman general, Quintus Fabius Maximus, who patiently waited instead of initiating a direct fight with Carthaginian general, Hannibal, thus exhausting him and then defeating him. Like the Roman general, they decided to wait and establish the new world with just one strike at the right time.

(imagen visible para usuarios registrados)The coat of arms of Fabian Society. (Wikimedia)
In 1910, the Fabians commissioned a glass painting for the headquarters of the Fabian Society. The top of the glass read, "Remould it nearer to the heart's desire." This phrase is taken from a rubai (quatrain) by the Iranian poet Omar Khayyam, who is claimed to be Ismaili like Hassan-i Sabbah, the founder of the Order of Assassins, and refers to shattering and then reshaping the world. The bottom of the painting shows the Fabians building a new world with their hammers. The most striking thing in this depiction on the glass is the wolf logo of the society dressed in lambskin. The logo almost reminds one of the passage from the Bible: “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”
The Fabians wanted to fulfill the goal of aNew World Order of the Hermetics, but they believed that people would change with reforms, not a revolution as Marx had claimed. In fact, as they wanted to establish socialism under capital control, they aimed to impose socialism not only on the working class but also on the capitalists. To achieve this goal of changing society, they would advise governments, especially in the field of education, and change society through them.
The Fabian Society went beyond advising governments over time, establishing its own political party and even coming to power. The Labour Party, which trinc a liberal and democratic line of socialism, started its activities in 1903 with the support of Fabian members. Ironically, some of the Fabians who had integrated themselves into the Labour Party were already Liberal deputies. As a matter of fact, with the establishment of the Labour Party, the Liberal Party went into a decline as of 1922, and the power in the United Kingdom began to alternate between the Labour Party and the Conservative Party.

Superman
Among the early members of the Fabian Society were psychic researcher and author Frank Podmore, former London Stock Exchange employee and writer Edward R. Pease, and journalist Hubert Bland, who was also writer Edith Nesbit's husband. The famous playwright George Bernard Shaw joined the group nine months after the society was founded and soon became one of its leaders.
Shaw persuaded his friend Sidney Webb, whom he had first met at the Zetetical Society, to join the society. Webb also invited her colleague Sydney Oliver from the Colonial Office to join. Thus, the two friends joined the Fabian Society in May 1885. Olivier enabled Graham Wallas to enter the society in May 1886. Annie Besant, one of the most famous members of the society, joined the society in April of that year.
The first three years, that is, between 1884 and 1887, were the reading and preparation period for the Fabian members. They read the works of various writers such as Marx, the French Priest Jean-Baptiste de La Salle, the Welsh utopian Robert Owen and the Scottish philosopher Adam Smith. In addition, the works in which Friedrich Nietzsche's idea of "Superman" (Übermensch) originated were frequently read by Fabians such as writer H. G. Wells, politician Alfred Richard Orage and Shaw.

(imagen visible para usuarios registrados)An old photo shows Beatrice and Sidney Webb working together in 1895. (Wikimedia)

Shaw believed in Nietzsche's ideal of "replacing the human with the superhuman." He even introduced the idea and word of “superman” to English in his play “Man and Superman,” written in 1903. Under the influence of Charles Darwin's theory of evolution along with Nietzsche, the Fabians believed that humans would turn into superhumans with extraordinary powers, which are often antiestéticatured in Marvel movies today.
'Brave New World'
Among the members of the Fabian Society, to which more than 200 deputies of British Parliament are members today, were famous people such as Richard Henry Tawney, who is known for his works on education; George Douglas Howard Cole and his vvife Margaret Cole, who led the London County Council's Education Committee; Jewish professor Harold Joseph Laski; John Stuart Stuart-Glennie, known for his works related to folklore; British intelligence officer and philosopher Michael Oakeshott; Michael Young, who was the first to use the word "meritocracy,” meaning "rule of intellectuals."
Apart from Webb and Oliver, who were later made barons, there were many nobles who joined the Fabians. Lord John Sankey, high chancellor of the House of Lords, and Bertrand Russell, the philosopher grandson of Lord John Russell, who served twice as U.K.'s prime minister, were also Fabian.
One of the Fabians who tried to envision the New World with his novels was H. G. Wells. The son of a gardener, Wells was a student of Thomas Huxley, grandfather of Fabian Aldous Huxley. Thomas Huxley was a big fan of Darwin's theory of evolution. That's why he was called "Darwin's Bulldog." Wells, like his teacher, was an atheist who believed in evolution.

(imagen visible para usuarios registrados)Aldous Huxley. (Wikimedia)
“Brave New World,” written by Aldous Huxley in 1931, is one of the Fabians' most famous dystopias. Huxley, who studied at Eton College and Oxford, met Russell at Oxford and entered the Fabian Society through him.
If the Fabians had a more famous dystopia than “Brave New World,” it was George Orwell's. Orwell's socialist mother had many Fabian friends. Orwell grew up in such an environment that he did not hesitate to join the Fabian Society in due time.
The Fabians had also invaded America. The most famous American Fabian was the educational philosopher John Dewey. Davidson, who taught sociology at the Educational Alliance founded by Jewish businessperson in America, went to New York in 1887 and established a branch of the Fellowship of the New Life there. Dewey also gave lectures here between 1888 and 1890.
United Nations
One of the fundamental works in the founding of the League of Nations was the book titled "International Government." It was penned by Leonard Sidney Woolf, the Fabian husband of novelist Virginia Woolf, in 1916 when World War I was ongoing. It was the book version of the article titled "Suggestions for the Prevention of War" published in the New Statesman magazine in 1915. An introduction was also penned by Shaw for this book, which was in fact a collective work of Fabian Society members.
Fabians also established the financial arm of the international government, which was a big step toward a single global state. British economist John Maynard Keynes was one of its greatest contributors. Keynes got to know the Fabian Society through Beatrice and Sidney Webb while studying in Cambridge and joined the society. He wrote articles for the society's New Statesman until 1939 and was among the administrative delegation of the magazine. Working on the economic issues of the New World Order, Keynes wished for the establishment of a common bank and monetary unit for the whole world. He had a large role in the convening of the United Nations Monetary and Financial Conference in 1944, which is also known as the Bretton Woods Conference and resulted in the establishment of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund (IMF).

@Furymundo @Gothaus @honk-honk @Walter Sobchak @Uritorco @reaccionariocine @El asistente de Echenique @El Gran Cid @Rose_Seraphim @Don Juan de Austria @ShellShock @LetalFantasy @César92 @EGO @Visilleras @Supremacía @Leopardo @ESC @astur_burbuja @ominae
Pues eso.

Siempre se debate en otros hilos entre liberalismo o marxismo, pero resulta bastante llamativo lo poco que se habla del Socialismo fabiano (prácticamente es nombrado 4 veces contadas en el foro, una referencia en El último hombre occidental y poco más).

Gente como HG Wells o los autores de las 2 distopías más famosas: George Orwell o Aldous Huxley vienen de ahí. Un logo que es un lobo disfrazado de cordero que es toda una señal de que vienen a buena fe y tal.

Si el bolchevismo venía de Moscú, estos tan simpáticos que solo quieren perjudicarnos vienen de Londres.

Si el bolchevismo buscaba el gobierno mundial tras una toma violenta del mundo con la estrategia de la lucha de clases, estos buscan llegar al gobierno mundial pasito a pasito hasta la estocada final.

Pongo un articulito para amenizar la velada

La Sociedad Fabiana, que se considera el think tank político más antiguo de Gran Bretaña, tiene como objetivo impulsar la causa socialista mediante medios gradualistas y reformistas. Sin embargo, la sociedad era en realidad una rama de otra asociación llamada Fellowship of the New Life

El filósofo Thomas Davidson, que nació en Escocia en 1840, viajó a Italia y realizó investigaciones sobre el filósofo Tomás de Aquino, el poeta Alighieri Dante, el filósofo Giordano Bruno y el sacerdote Antonio Rosmini. A su regreso a Inglaterra, comenzó a celebrar reuniones y a explicar sus ideas a la gente con el objetivo de "reorganizar la vida humana" y elevar la vida comunitaria a niveles superiores. Así, atrajo a un grupo de personas aficionadas a la reforma social y a la filosofía. Junto con estos admiradores, decidieron establecer una sociedad en Londres en septiembre de 1882. La sociedad se llamó Fellowship of the New Life. Davidson había tomado el título "New Life" del texto de Dante "The New Life" ("La Vita Nuova").

(imagen visible para usuarios registrados)Thomas Davidson. (Wikimedia)
Davidson desarrolló un programa para la sociedad que fundaron y lo llamó "Vita Nuova". El objetivo del programa se determinó como "el cultivo de un carácter perfecto en cada uno y en todos" con el principio de "la subordinación de las cosas materiales a las cosas espirituales". El programa New Life era como una nueva religión, Dios era el amor y la meditación en silencio se consideraba adoración. Estaba prohibido cotillear y hablar mal. El concepto de propiedad personal no existía. El matrimonio sería monógamo y solo por amor. Cada uno era responsable de lo que hacía. Había que renunciar a todos los títulos, las desigualdades sociales y el prestigio familiar. Todos debían vestir de forma sencilla, pero con gusto. No había distinción entre los géneros. En esta sociedad, la autoridad dependía de los principios, no de las personas.
Según el programa, los miembros de la Fellowship of the New Life debían reunirse regularmente. Estas personas debían llevar una vida sencilla basada en las reglas sarracena predeterminadas y vivir una nueva vida basada en la humildad, el amor y la sabiduría. Después de esto, tenían que buscar un lugar adecuado para establecerse donde pudieran llevar esta vida juntos, formar una comunidad, animar a quienes los rodeaban a vivir esta nueva vida, ofrecer cursos y luego, gradualmente, provocar un cambio en la sociedad.
Los miembros jóvenes de la Fellowship of the New Life con ideas socialistas objetaron a Davidson, diciendo que este objetivo basado en el voluntariado individual era demasiado utópico y llevaría mucho tiempo. La llegada de la nueva vida, es decir, la vida de la nueva era, tenía que acelerarse mediante métodos científicos aplicados de arriba hacia abajo. Pero Davidson, que era egoísta y reservado en su ideología, rechazó sus sugerencias. Después de esto, estos miembros se separaron de la Fellowship of the New Life y formaron su propio grupo, es decir, la Fabian Society, el 4 de enero de 1884, el año siguiente a la gloria de Karl Marx. Aunque siguieron métodos diferentes, ambas sociedades continuaron sus relaciones amistosas.

Lobos con piel de cordero
Los fabianos dijeron que su gremio recibió su nombre del general romano Quinto Fabio Máximo, que esperó pacientemente en lugar de iniciar una lucha directa con el general cartaginés Aníbal, agotándolo así y luego derrotándolo. Como el general romano, decidieron esperar y establecer el nuevo mundo con un solo golpe en el momento adecuado.

(imagen visible para usuarios registrados)El escudo de armas de la Fabian Society. (Wikimedia)
En 1910, los fabianos encargaron una pintura en vidrio para la sede de la Fabian Society. En la parte superior del vidrio se leía: "Remodeladlo más cerca del deseo del corazón". Esta frase está tomada de un rubai (cuarteto) del poeta iraní Omar Khayyam, de quien se afirma que era ismailí como Hassan-i Sabbah, el fundador de la Orden de los Malos, y se refiere a hacer añicos y luego remodelar el mundo. La parte inferior de la pintura muestra a los fabianos construyendo un nuevo mundo con sus martillos. Lo más llamativo de esta representación en el vidrio es el logotipo de lobo de la sociedad vestido con piel de cordero. El logotipo casi recuerda el pasaje de la Biblia: "Guardaos de los falsos profetas, que vienen a vosotros con vestidos de ovejas, pero por dentro son lobos rapaces".
Los fabianos querían cumplir el objetivo de un Nuevo Orden Mundial de los Herméticos, pero creían que las personas cambiarían con reformas, no con una revolución como había afirmado Marx. De hecho, como querían establecer el socialismo bajo el control del capital, pretendían imponer el socialismo no solo a la clase trabajadora sino también a los capitalistas. Para lograr este objetivo de cambiar la sociedad, asesorarían a los gobiernos, especialmente en el campo de la educación, y cambiarían la sociedad a través de ellos.
La Sociedad Fabiana fue más allá de asesorar a los gobiernos a lo largo del tiempo, estableciendo su propio partido político e incluso llegando al poder. El Partido Laborista, que siguió una línea liberal y democrática del socialismo, inició sus actividades en 1903 con el apoyo de miembros fabianos. Irónicamente, algunos de los fabianos que se habían integrado en el Partido Laborista ya eran fruta liberales. De hecho, con el establecimiento del Partido Laborista, el Partido Liberal entró en declive a partir de 1922, y el poder en el Reino Unido comenzó a alternarse entre el Partido Laborista y el Partido Conservador.

Superman
Entre los primeros miembros de la Sociedad Fabiana se encontraban el investigador psíquico y autor Frank Podmore, el ex empleado de la Bolsa de Londres y escritor Edward R. Pease, y el periodista Hubert Bland, que también era el marido de la escritora Edith Nesbit. El famoso dramaturgo George Bernard Shaw se unió al grupo nueve meses después de la fundación de la sociedad y pronto se convirtió en uno de sus líderes.
Shaw persuadió a su amigo Sidney Webb, a quien había conocido por primera vez en la Sociedad Zetética, para que se uniera a la sociedad. Webb también invitó a su colega Sydney Oliver, de la Oficina Colonial, a unirse. Así, los dos amigos se unieron a la Sociedad Fabiana en mayo de 1885. Olivier permitió que Graham Wallas entrara en la sociedad en mayo de 1886. Annie Besant, una de las miembros más famosas de la sociedad, se unió a la sociedad en abril de ese año.
Los primeros tres años, es decir, entre 1884 y 1887, fueron el período de lectura y preparación para los miembros fabianos. Leían las obras de diversos escritores como Marx, el sacerdote francés Jean-Baptiste de La Salle, el utópico galés Robert Owen y el filósofo escocés Adam Smith. Además, las obras en las que se originó la idea de "Superhombre" (Übermensch) de Friedrich Nietzsche eran leídas con frecuencia por fabianos como el escritor H. G. Wells, el político Alfred Richard Orage y Shaw.

(imagen visible para usuarios registrados)Una foto antigua muestra a Beatrice y Sidney Webb trabajando juntos en 1895. (Wikimedia)

Shaw creía en el ideal de Nietzsche de "reemplazar lo humano por lo sobrehumano". Incluso introdujo la idea y la palabra "superman" al inglés en su obra "Man and Superman", escrita en 1903. Bajo la influencia de la teoría de la evolución de Charles Darwin junto con Nietzsche, los fabianos creían que los humanos se convertirían en superhumanos con poderes extraordinarios, que a menudo aparecen en las películas de Marvel hoy en día.
'Un mundo feliz'
Entre los miembros de la Sociedad Fabiana, a la que hoy pertenecen más de 200 fruta del Parlamento británico, había personas famosas como Richard Henry Tawney, conocido por sus obras sobre educación; George Douglas Howard Cole y su esposa Margaret Cole, que dirigieron el Comité de Educación del Consejo del Condado de Londres; el profesor judío Harold Joseph Laski; John Stuart Stuart-Glennie, conocido por sus obras relacionadas con el folclore; el oficial de inteligencia británico y filósofo Michael Oakeshott; Michael Young, que fue el primero en utilizar la palabra "meritocracia", que significa "gobierno de los intelectuales".
Aparte de Webb y Oliver, que más tarde fueron nombrados barones, hubo muchos nobles que se unieron a los fabianos. Lord John Sankey, alto canciller de la Cámara de los Lores, y Bertrand Russell, el filósofo nieto de Lord John Russell, que fue dos veces primer ministro del Reino Unido, también eran fabianos.
Uno de los fabianos que intentó imaginar el Nuevo Mundo con sus novelas fue H. G. Wells. Descendiente de un jardinero, Wells fue alumno de Thomas Huxley, abuelo del fabiano Aldous Huxley. Thomas Huxley era un gran admirador de la teoría de la evolución de Darwin. Por eso se le llamaba "el bulldog de Darwin". Wells, como su maestro, era un ateo que creía en la evolución.

(imagen visible para usuarios registrados)Aldous Huxley. (Wikimedia)
"Un mundo feliz", escrita por Aldous Huxley en 1931, es una de las distopías más famosas de los fabianos. Huxley, que estudió en el Eton College y en Oxford, conoció a Russell en Oxford y entró en la Sociedad Fabiana a través de él.
Si los fabianos tuvieron una distopía más famosa que "Un mundo feliz", fue la de George Orwell. La progenitora socialista de Orwell tenía muchos amigos fabianos. Orwell creció en un entorno tal que no dudó en unirse a la Sociedad Fabiana a su debido tiempo.
Los fabianos también habían invadido América. El fabiano estadounidense más famoso fue el filósofo de la educación John Dewey. Davidson, que enseñaba sociología en la Educational Alliance fundada por un empresario judío en América, fue a Nueva York en 1887 y estableció allí una rama de la Fellowship of the New Life. Dewey también dio conferencias aquí entre 1888 y 1890.
Naciones Unidas
Una de las obras fundamentales en la fundación de la Sociedad de Naciones fue el libro titulado "International Government". Fue escrito por Leonard Sidney Woolf, el esposo fabiano de la novelista Virginia Woolf, en 1916, cuando la Primera Guerra Mundial estaba en curso. Era la versión en libro del artículo titulado "Suggestions for the Prevention of War", publicado en la revista New Statesman en 1915. Shaw también escribió una introducción para este libro, que de hecho era una obra colectiva de miembros de la Sociedad Fabiana.
Los fabianos también establecieron el brazo financiero del gobierno internacional, que fue un gran paso hacia un único estado global. El economista británico John Maynard Keynes fue uno de sus mayores contribuyentes. Keynes conoció la Sociedad Fabiana a través de Beatrice y Sidney Webb mientras estudiaba en Cambridge y se unió a la sociedad. Escribió artículos para el New Statesman de la sociedad hasta 1939 y formó parte de la delegación administrativa de la revista. Trabajando en los asuntos económicos del Nuevo Orden Mundial, Keynes deseaba el establecimiento de un banco y una unidad monetaria comunes para todo el mundo. Tuvo un gran papel en la convocatoria de la Conferencia Monetaria y Financiera de las Naciones Unidas en 1944, también conocida como la Conferencia de Bretton Woods, que dio como resultado el establecimiento del Banco Mundial y del Fondo Monetario Internacional (FMI).
@Furymundo @Gothaus @honk-honk @Walter Sobchak @Uritorco @reaccionariocine @El asistente de Echenique @El Gran Cid @Rose_Seraphim @Don Juan de Austria @ShellShock @LetalFantasy @César92 @EGO @Visilleras @Supremacía @Leopardo @ESC @astur_burbuja @ominae
 
Hay algunos hilos interesantes sobre este tema en el foro:

Este hilo, de 2012, es especialmente interesante por los datos que aporta, y porque habla directamente de Londres

Vaya, no recordaba el "escudo"

Lobo disfrazado de oveja

(imagen visible para usuarios registrados) roto2 roto2 roto2 roto2
Los lobos con piel de cordero que quieren remodelar el mundo a su antojo, tema del que se debería hablar más en este foro.

Añado un enlace:
mhp: The Fabian Society (modernhistoryproject.org)

esto del escudo es brutal. De hecho, fue Shellshock quien me lo enseñó.

Lo que es menos conocido es que las 2 novelas distópicas son de esta gente (es decir, no están denunciando, sino que están dando las pautas para seguir).
 
Así es, por eso mismo la mayor parte de la derecha te llama paranoico y guerracivilista cuando adviertes que nos dirigimos hacia un régimen socialista (si es que es nacionalpagafantismo y no están directamente metidos en el ajo), porque no hay cambios excesivamente bruscos, sino que van devorando poco a poco la propiedad privada y boicoteando la economía, de tal modo que parece que todo sigue igual que antes, salvo pequeños cambios, pero echas la vista atrás, a apenas a 20 años vista, ves que vivimos en mundos absolutamente distintos a nivel económico, social, sarracena, etc.

Eso no significa que el marxismo este perecid, ni mucho menos, en la izquierda hay una pugna entre ambas corrientes, como si intentasen destruir todo lo que para una persona normal quiere conservar a dos velocidades distintas. El conflicto entre socialdemócratas y comunistas es únicamente ese, nada más.
 
Así es, por eso mismo la mayor parte de la derecha te llama paranoico y guerracivilista cuando adviertes que nos dirigimos hacia un régimen socialista (si es que es nacionalpagafantismo y no están directamente metidos en el ajo), porque no hay cambios excesivamente bruscos, sino que van devorando poco a poco la propiedad privada y boicoteando la economía, de tal modo que parece que todo sigue igual que antes, salvo pequeños cambios, pero echas la vista atrás, a apenas a 20 años vista, ves que vivimos en mundos absolutamente distintos a nivel económico, social, sarracena, etc.

Eso no significa que el marxismo este perecid, ni mucho menos, en la izquierda hay una pugna entre ambas corrientes, como si intentasen destruir todo lo que para una persona normal quiere conservar a dos velocidades distintas. El conflicto entre socialdemócratas y comunistas es únicamente ese, nada más.

Así es, muy buen mensaje
 
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Ver el texto original (en)
Conexiones entre la Fabian Society y la familia Rothschild (mhp: The Fabian Society -- The Fabians and Subversive Money Interests (modernhistoryproject.org)):

The Manchester School and the Rothschilds

As Shaw, Webb, Olivier and Wallas became the Fabian Society's dominant "Big Four", it becomes clear that the Society originated as a private organisation run by elements in the employ of media outlets representing liberal capitalist interests.

Indeed, the Society's key financial backers included John Passmore Edwards, an associate of textile manufacturer and leader of the Liberal "Manchester School", Richard Cobden himself. For example, in the 1890s, Passmore Edwards donated £10,000 for a new building for the Fabians' London School of Economics (LSE) (Webb. p. 93).

The Fabians were also linked with the Manchester School through Harold Cox, a member of the Fabian Society who was a trinc of Manchester Liberalism, secretary of the Cobden Club and editor of the influential quarterly Edinburgh Review, as well as a collaborator of Sidney Webb (Webb, p. 502).

It trinc that both Karl Marx and the Fabian Society were bankrolled by industrial interests with links to the left-wing Manchester School and the media world.

These already powerful interests were allies of the Rothschild banking family which had close links to the world of Manchester's left-wing media, industry and finance: the Rothschilds' first port of call in England had been Manchester, where the group's patriarch Nathan Meyer started his career in the textile trade. They had a long tradition of support for Liberal causes, several leading members of the group having served as Liberal members of parliament.

The Fabian Society was in close touch with the Rothschilds both directly and through go-betweens like Lord Arthur Balfour. The Balfours were among the chief representatives of Britain's money power and were involved in the creation of organisations advancing its interests from the Anglo-American League and the Pilgrims Society to Imperial College and the League of Nations. While his brother Gerald was President of the Board of Trade, Arthur Balfour served as President of the Local Government Board and later as Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary. While in these posts, he conferred on a regular basis with both Lord Natty Rothschild and the Fabian leadership and used his position to advance their agendas.

Lord Rothschild himself was personally involved, with Sidney Webb, in the restructuring of the University of London into which the Fabians' London School of Economics (LSE) was incorporated in 1898. He also provided funds for the LSE and served as its third president, after his relative Lord Rosebery (Webb, pp. 182, 214).

The LSE continues to maintain close links with Rothschild and allied interests. For example, LSE's Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment is funded by the Grantham Foundation, whose founder Jeremy Grantham of the investment management firm Grantham, Mayo & Otterloo (GMO) was an economist at Rothschild-controlled Royal Dutch Shell. The Grantham Institute's advisory board includes Sir Evelyn de Rothschild of EL Rothschild Ltd. and Vikram Singh Mehta of Shell Companies, India. Rothschild, Shell, Barclays, Goldman Sachs, J. P. Morgan and Morgan Stanley are members of the LSE Careers Patron Group. Peter Sutherland, chairman of Goldman Sachs International, is chairman of the LSE, etc.
Conexiones entre la Fabian Society y la familia Rothschild (mhp: The Fabian Society -- The Fabians and Subversive Money Interests (modernhistoryproject.org)):

La Escuela de Mánchester y los Rothschild

Cuando Shaw, Webb, Olivier y Wallas se convirtieron en el "Cuatro Grandes" dominante de la Fabian Society, queda claro que la Sociedad se originó como una organización privada dirigida por elementos empleados por medios de comunicación que representaban intereses capitalistas liberales.

De hecho, entre los principales patrocinadores financieros de la Sociedad se encontraba John Passmore Edwards, un asociado del fabricante textil y líder de la "Escuela de Mánchester" liberal, Richard Cobden en persona. Por ejemplo, en la década de 1890, Passmore Edwards donó £10,000 para un nuevo edificio para la London School of Economics (LSE) de los fabianos (Webb. p. 93).

Los fabianos también estaban vinculados con la Escuela de Mánchester a través de Harold Cox, miembro de la Fabian Society que era seguidor del liberalismo de Mánchester, secretario del Cobden Club y editor de la influyente revista trimestral Edinburgh Review, así como colaborador de Sidney Webb (Webb, p. 502).

De ello se deduce que tanto Karl Marx como la Fabian Society fueron financiados por intereses industriales con vínculos con la Escuela de Mánchester de izquierdas y el mundo de los medios de comunicación.

Estos intereses ya de por sí poderosos eran aliados de la familia bancaria Rothschild, que tenía estrechos vínculos con el mundo de los medios de comunicación, la industria y las finanzas de izquierdas de Mánchester: el primer punto de escala de los Rothschild en Inglaterra había sido Mánchester, donde el patriarca del grupo, Nathan Meyer, inició su carrera en el comercio textil. Tenían una larga tradición de apoyo a las causas liberales, y varios miembros destacados del grupo habían ejercido como fruta liberales.

La Fabian Society estaba en estrecho contacto con los Rothschild tanto directamente como a través de intermediarios como Lord Arthur Balfour. Los Balfour se encontraban entre los principales representantes del poder financiero de Gran Bretaña y participaron en la creación de organizaciones que promovían sus intereses, desde la Anglo-American League y la Pilgrims Society hasta el Imperial College y la Sociedad de Naciones. Mientras su hermano Gerald era Presidente de la Junta de Comercio, Arthur Balfour ejerció como Presidente de la Junta de Gobierno Local y posteriormente como Primer Ministro y Secretario de Asuntos Exteriores. Mientras ocupó estos cargos, se reunió periódicamente tanto con Lord Natty Rothschild como con la dirección fabiana, y utilizó su posición para impulsar sus agendas.
El propio Lord Rothschild estuvo personalmente involucrado, junto con Sidney Webb, en la reestructuración de la Universidad de Londres, en la que se incorporó la London School of Economics (LSE) de los fabianos en 1898. También aportó fondos para la LSE y ejerció como su tercer presidente, después de su pariente Lord Rosebery (Webb, pp. 182, 214).

La LSE sigue manteniendo vínculos estrechos con Rothschild y los intereses aliados. Por ejemplo, el Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment de la LSE está financiado por la Grantham Foundation, cuyo fundador, Jeremy Grantham, de la firma de gestión de inversiones Grantham, Mayo & Otterloo (GMO), fue economista en Royal Dutch Shell, controlada por Rothschild. El consejo asesor del Grantham Institute incluye a Sir Evelyn de Rothschild, de EL Rothschild Ltd., y a Vikram Singh Mehta, de Shell Companies, India. Rothschild, Shell, Barclays, Goldman Sachs, J. P. Morgan y Morgan Stanley son miembros del LSE Careers Patron Group. Peter Sutherland, presidente de Goldman Sachs International, es presidente de la LSE, etc.
 
Conexiones entre la Fabian Society y la familia Rothschild (mhp: The Fabian Society -- The Fabians and Subversive Money Interests (modernhistoryproject.org)):

The Manchester School and the Rothschilds

As Shaw, Webb, Olivier and Wallas became the Fabian Society's dominant "Big Four", it becomes clear that the Society originated as a private organisation run by elements in the employ of media outlets representing liberal capitalist interests.

Indeed, the Society's key financial backers included John Passmore Edwards, an associate of textile manufacturer and leader of the Liberal "Manchester School", Richard Cobden himself. For example, in the 1890s, Passmore Edwards donated £10,000 for a new building for the Fabians' London School of Economics (LSE) (Webb. p. 93).

The Fabians were also linked with the Manchester School through Harold Cox, a member of the Fabian Society who was a trinc of Manchester Liberalism, secretary of the Cobden Club and editor of the influential quarterly Edinburgh Review, as well as a collaborator of Sidney Webb (Webb, p. 502).

It trinc that both Karl Marx and the Fabian Society were bankrolled by industrial interests with links to the left-wing Manchester School and the media world.

These already powerful interests were allies of the Rothschild banking family which had close links to the world of Manchester's left-wing media, industry and finance: the Rothschilds' first port of call in England had been Manchester, where the group's patriarch Nathan Meyer started his career in the textile trade. They had a long tradition of support for Liberal causes, several leading members of the group having served as Liberal members of parliament.

The Fabian Society was in close touch with the Rothschilds both directly and through go-betweens like Lord Arthur Balfour. The Balfours were among the chief representatives of Britain's money power and were involved in the creation of organisations advancing its interests from the Anglo-American League and the Pilgrims Society to Imperial College and the League of Nations. While his brother Gerald was President of the Board of Trade, Arthur Balfour served as President of the Local Government Board and later as Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary. While in these posts, he conferred on a regular basis with both Lord Natty Rothschild and the Fabian leadership and used his position to advance their agendas.

Lord Rothschild himself was personally involved, with Sidney Webb, in the restructuring of the University of London into which the Fabians' London School of Economics (LSE) was incorporated in 1898. He also provided funds for the LSE and served as its third president, after his relative Lord Rosebery (Webb, pp. 182, 214).

The LSE continues to maintain close links with Rothschild and allied interests. For example, LSE's Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment is funded by the Grantham Foundation, whose founder Jeremy Grantham of the investment management firm Grantham, Mayo & Otterloo (GMO) was an economist at Rothschild-controlled Royal Dutch Shell. The Grantham Institute's advisory board includes Sir Evelyn de Rothschild of EL Rothschild Ltd. and Vikram Singh Mehta of Shell Companies, India. Rothschild, Shell, Barclays, Goldman Sachs, J. P. Morgan and Morgan Stanley are members of the LSE Careers Patron Group. Peter Sutherland, chairman of Goldman Sachs International, is chairman of the LSE, etc.

Al final siempre son los mismos con los mismos rollos.
 
Pues eso.

Siempre se debate en otros hilos entre liberalismo o marxismo, pero resulta bastante llamativo lo poco que se habla del Socialismo fabiano (prácticamente es nombrado 4 veces contadas en el foro, una referencia en El último hombre occidental y poco más).

Gente como HG Wells o los autores de las 2 distopías más famosas: George Orwell o Aldous Huxley vienen de ahí. Un logo que es un lobo disfrazado de cordero que es toda una señal de que vienen a buena fe y tal.

Si el bolchevismo venía de Moscú, estos tan simpáticos que solo quieren perjudicarnos vienen de Londres.

Si el bolchevismo buscaba el gobierno mundial tras una toma violenta del mundo con la estrategia de la lucha de clases, estos buscan llegar al gobierno mundial pasito a pasito hasta la estocada final.

Pongo un articulito para amenizar la velada

The Fabian Society, which considers itself Britain's oldest political think tank, aims to advance the socialist cause by gradualist and reformist means. However, the society was actually an offshoot of another association called Fellowship of the New Life

Philosopher Thomas Davidson, who was born in Scotland in 1840, traveled to Italy and conducted research on the philosopher Thomas Aquinas, poet Alighieri Dante, philosopher Giordano Bruno and priest Antonio Rosmini. On his return to England, he began holding meetings and explaining his ideas to people with the aim of "reorganizing human life" and elevating community life to higher levels. Thus, he attracted a group of people who were fond of social reform and philosophy. Together with these admirers, they decided to establish a society in London in September 1882. The society was called the Fellowship of the New Life. Davidson had taken the title "New Life" from Dante's text “The New Life” (“La Vita Nuova”).

(imagen visible para usuarios registrados)Thomas Davidson. (Wikimedia)
Davidson developed a program for the society they founded and called it “Vita Nuova.” The program's goal was determined as "the cultivation of a perfect character in each and all" with the principle of “the subordination of material things to spiritual things.” The New Life program was like a new religion, God was love and meditation in silence was considered worship. It was forbidden to gossip and talk in a bad way. The concept of personal property did not exist. Marriage would be monogamous and for love only. Everyone was responsible for what they did. All titles, social inequalities and family prestige had to be given up. Everyone had to dress simply, but tastefully. There was no distinction between the genders. In this society, authority was dependent on principles, not people.

According to the program, members of the Fellowship of the New Life were to meet regularly. These people were to lead a simple life based on the predetermined sarracena rules and live a new life based on humility, love and wisdom. After this, they had to look for a suitable place to settle down where they could pursue this life together, form a community, encourage others around them to live this new life, offer courses and then gradually bring change in the society.
Young members of the Fellowship of the New Life with socialist ideas objected to Davidson, saying that this goal based on individual volunteerism was too utopian and would take a very long time. The arrival of the new life, that is, the new age life, had to be accelerated by scientific methods to be applied from the top down. But Davidson, who was selfish and reserved in his ideology, turned down their suggestions. After this, these members parted ways with the Fellowships of the New Life and formed their own group, that is, the Fabian Society, on Jan. 4, 1884, the year trinc the death of Karl Marx. Although they trinc different methods, both societies continued their friendly relations.

Wolves in Lambskin
The Fabians said that their guild was named after the Roman general, Quintus Fabius Maximus, who patiently waited instead of initiating a direct fight with Carthaginian general, Hannibal, thus exhausting him and then defeating him. Like the Roman general, they decided to wait and establish the new world with just one strike at the right time.

(imagen visible para usuarios registrados)The coat of arms of Fabian Society. (Wikimedia)
In 1910, the Fabians commissioned a glass painting for the headquarters of the Fabian Society. The top of the glass read, "Remould it nearer to the heart's desire." This phrase is taken from a rubai (quatrain) by the Iranian poet Omar Khayyam, who is claimed to be Ismaili like Hassan-i Sabbah, the founder of the Order of Assassins, and refers to shattering and then reshaping the world. The bottom of the painting shows the Fabians building a new world with their hammers. The most striking thing in this depiction on the glass is the wolf logo of the society dressed in lambskin. The logo almost reminds one of the passage from the Bible: “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”
The Fabians wanted to fulfill the goal of aNew World Order of the Hermetics, but they believed that people would change with reforms, not a revolution as Marx had claimed. In fact, as they wanted to establish socialism under capital control, they aimed to impose socialism not only on the working class but also on the capitalists. To achieve this goal of changing society, they would advise governments, especially in the field of education, and change society through them.
The Fabian Society went beyond advising governments over time, establishing its own political party and even coming to power. The Labour Party, which trinc a liberal and democratic line of socialism, started its activities in 1903 with the support of Fabian members. Ironically, some of the Fabians who had integrated themselves into the Labour Party were already Liberal deputies. As a matter of fact, with the establishment of the Labour Party, the Liberal Party went into a decline as of 1922, and the power in the United Kingdom began to alternate between the Labour Party and the Conservative Party.

Superman
Among the early members of the Fabian Society were psychic researcher and author Frank Podmore, former London Stock Exchange employee and writer Edward R. Pease, and journalist Hubert Bland, who was also writer Edith Nesbit's husband. The famous playwright George Bernard Shaw joined the group nine months after the society was founded and soon became one of its leaders.
Shaw persuaded his friend Sidney Webb, whom he had first met at the Zetetical Society, to join the society. Webb also invited her colleague Sydney Oliver from the Colonial Office to join. Thus, the two friends joined the Fabian Society in May 1885. Olivier enabled Graham Wallas to enter the society in May 1886. Annie Besant, one of the most famous members of the society, joined the society in April of that year.
The first three years, that is, between 1884 and 1887, were the reading and preparation period for the Fabian members. They read the works of various writers such as Marx, the French Priest Jean-Baptiste de La Salle, the Welsh utopian Robert Owen and the Scottish philosopher Adam Smith. In addition, the works in which Friedrich Nietzsche's idea of "Superman" (Übermensch) originated were frequently read by Fabians such as writer H. G. Wells, politician Alfred Richard Orage and Shaw.

(imagen visible para usuarios registrados)An old photo shows Beatrice and Sidney Webb working together in 1895. (Wikimedia)

Shaw believed in Nietzsche's ideal of "replacing the human with the superhuman." He even introduced the idea and word of “superman” to English in his play “Man and Superman,” written in 1903. Under the influence of Charles Darwin's theory of evolution along with Nietzsche, the Fabians believed that humans would turn into superhumans with extraordinary powers, which are often antiestéticatured in Marvel movies today.
'Brave New World'
Among the members of the Fabian Society, to which more than 200 deputies of British Parliament are members today, were famous people such as Richard Henry Tawney, who is known for his works on education; George Douglas Howard Cole and his vvife Margaret Cole, who led the London County Council's Education Committee; Jewish professor Harold Joseph Laski; John Stuart Stuart-Glennie, known for his works related to folklore; British intelligence officer and philosopher Michael Oakeshott; Michael Young, who was the first to use the word "meritocracy,” meaning "rule of intellectuals."
Apart from Webb and Oliver, who were later made barons, there were many nobles who joined the Fabians. Lord John Sankey, high chancellor of the House of Lords, and Bertrand Russell, the philosopher grandson of Lord John Russell, who served twice as U.K.'s prime minister, were also Fabian.
One of the Fabians who tried to envision the New World with his novels was H. G. Wells. The son of a gardener, Wells was a student of Thomas Huxley, grandfather of Fabian Aldous Huxley. Thomas Huxley was a big fan of Darwin's theory of evolution. That's why he was called "Darwin's Bulldog." Wells, like his teacher, was an atheist who believed in evolution.

(imagen visible para usuarios registrados)Aldous Huxley. (Wikimedia)
“Brave New World,” written by Aldous Huxley in 1931, is one of the Fabians' most famous dystopias. Huxley, who studied at Eton College and Oxford, met Russell at Oxford and entered the Fabian Society through him.
If the Fabians had a more famous dystopia than “Brave New World,” it was George Orwell's. Orwell's socialist mother had many Fabian friends. Orwell grew up in such an environment that he did not hesitate to join the Fabian Society in due time.
The Fabians had also invaded America. The most famous American Fabian was the educational philosopher John Dewey. Davidson, who taught sociology at the Educational Alliance founded by Jewish businessperson in America, went to New York in 1887 and established a branch of the Fellowship of the New Life there. Dewey also gave lectures here between 1888 and 1890.
United Nations
One of the fundamental works in the founding of the League of Nations was the book titled "International Government." It was penned by Leonard Sidney Woolf, the Fabian husband of novelist Virginia Woolf, in 1916 when World War I was ongoing. It was the book version of the article titled "Suggestions for the Prevention of War" published in the New Statesman magazine in 1915. An introduction was also penned by Shaw for this book, which was in fact a collective work of Fabian Society members.
Fabians also established the financial arm of the international government, which was a big step toward a single global state. British economist John Maynard Keynes was one of its greatest contributors. Keynes got to know the Fabian Society through Beatrice and Sidney Webb while studying in Cambridge and joined the society. He wrote articles for the society's New Statesman until 1939 and was among the administrative delegation of the magazine. Working on the economic issues of the New World Order, Keynes wished for the establishment of a common bank and monetary unit for the whole world. He had a large role in the convening of the United Nations Monetary and Financial Conference in 1944, which is also known as the Bretton Woods Conference and resulted in the establishment of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund (IMF).

@Furymundo @Gothaus @honk-honk @Walter Sobchak @Uritorco @reaccionariocine @El asistente de Echenique @El Gran Cid @Rose_Seraphim @Don Juan de Austria @ShellShock @LetalFantasy @César92 @EGO @Visilleras @Supremacía @Leopardo @ESC @astur_burbuja @ominae

El socialismo fabiano es clave en la construcción del Nuevo Orden Mundial.
Es la ideología que se está aplicando desde hace décadas para el control de masas mediante la lucha de opuestos.
La herramienta ideológica de la Tecnocracia.
 


Esta entrevista con P-A. Plaquevent en TVLibertés permite comprender mejor conceptos como el Estado profundo (estadounidense), el socialismo fabiano, el socialismo oligárquico y el socialismo de élite, etc.
 
No creo que velaran nunca por nosotros, desde el principio de los tiempos el "estado" se ha dedicado a vivir del pueblo, al principio por medio de la fuerza, y después cuando la masa de expoliados fue mayor y temiendo una rebelión imposible de contener, empezaron con el lavado de cerebros (el rey es el contacto con dios, dios os dice a través de su representante en la tierra que hagáis esto y lo otro, el presidente ha sido elegido democráticamente por el pueblo, etc.).

Y ahora que religión y demás ideas se agotan, pues vienen con otras cuestiones para seguir expoliando y controlando a la gente. Ahora con el agravante de que quizás ya no nos necesitan porque pronto tendrán a la robótica y a la IA haciendo muchos de nuestros trabajos.

Quizás te parece que en otros tiempos era mejor porque el expolio era menor (diezmo) y además venimos de una sociedad reciente con bastante libertad y ahora nos están quitando esas libertades poco a poco, de forma "fabiana".

El estado es necesario, pero debe tener unos límites que ya traspasaron hace tiempo.

El único socialismo bueno es el socialismo perecid.

Todas esas moderneces no funcionan. El mundo iba bien cuando había 1 o 2 gobernantes por país y poco más. Pero después de tropecientas revoluciones, los antepasados de los incivil que gobiernan ahora asesinaron a nuestros gobernantes verdaderos, que velaban realmente por nosotros (reyes, príncipes, etc. de dinastías antiguas).

Llevamos cientos de años siendo huérfanos vapuleados por incivil. Se podrán disfrazar con diferentes etiquetas, pero ninguno es legítimo. Todos son incivil procedentes del lumpen y su objetivo no es ayudarnos, sino parasitarnos.
 

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