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Antiguo 06-feb-2010, 21:35
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Poland's strong economy
Horse power to horsepower
Economic growth and a strong, stable government to boot: time to rethink old notions about Poland
See articleJan 28th 2010

Readers' comments
.taki jeden wrote: Jan 29th 2010 13 GMT .I have almost fell off my chair when reading that “a new Polish foreign policy has been a success”.

Warsaw failed pathetically promoting Nice against Lisbon when reshaping the EU. The Brussels moguls have been systematically ignoring Poland’s efforts to obtain at least a little bit of support against the increasing Russian economic terror, be it either meat or gas. Germany have shown the middle finger to the Poles when sealing the Nordstream deal and resurrecting nightmares of the Russo-German partnership. The US have long been fooling the Poles about the missiles with the outcome still a big question mark, though most likely reduced to a dummy demonstration. NATO, initially believed to be an independece warrant, is almost defunct. In Ukraine the Polish protege has just been ousted and the country is on the Moscow-bound course again. Local central-eastern initiatives are miserable shambles. Success?
.Recommend (12)PermalinkReport abuse.Jan001 wrote: Jan 29th 2010 9:14 GMT .I don't know.. Has the writer of this article ever been in Poland? I do not think so. Does he/she know where is Poland at least?
The value of GDP is about right, however such 'great' newspaper like The Economist should know that GDP is not only factor of domestic market. Polish public sector is in really bad condition right now and is going to a disaster.
I have not time to argue with this ridicules arguments, but I can give the purpose of the news.
There is a big corruption swindle in Poland right now, and west countries like Britain or Germany want to help Polish present government to survive. The corrupted one. (let's guess why)
Polish people love when west countries hails their.
The article will be rewrite to Polish newspapers to show them how 'great' they are. The representatives want to swap the swindle under carpet.

Poland is an excellent county for people like k.Zbyuch, k.Krzykuch k.Miro right now!
.Recommend (8)PermalinkReport abuse.Marcin_PL wrote: Jan 29th 2010 9:35 GMT .@ mirmat
You have to take into consideration that the crisis didn't sneak under Mr. Kaczynski's door... And the current political configuration is a bit less intrusive than the previous one. A citizen is not moralised by an army of the "priest-in-chief" on every step of the way and we do not have to be extremely embarrassed for type of the Lepper sort...

Despite so many positives in the article, one omission came to my attention. That is the vast regional discrepancies in the quality of life and income. Unemployment rates range from 5,2 - 11,2 in different regions, the salaries also differ widely.
Another thing is the dire situation on the labour market among the fresh grads. Typically, IF they find a job, they get a minimum wage (so forget about independence). However, they often have troubles finding a job and once they get it they burn out fast, because they don't do what they like, but what gives them a salary. The reason - the education system that needs a fundamental change, employers themselves, and the grads, who can't find themselves in a new situation.

Despite much progress, there still much more work to do...
.Recommend (3)PermalinkReport abuse.resistance77 wrote: Jan 29th 2010 9:46 GMT .i can't belive of this article was made, i don't sure who wrote this article , polish or british journalist ,unemployment is 12%,, right mr Tusk have a connections directly to "heroes" of polish gambling scandal ( who heard in UK about this) just short information was given in Reuters ag. some true facts Polish economy going up ,but have big national debt called National Insurance office (v.ZUS) ,any who have own bussines in Poland know how is expensive this system doesn't matteryou have incomes or not ,you oblige to payNI contribution ex min is about 200 £ (r u belive)
.Recommend (2)PermalinkReport abuse.Didomyk wrote: Jan 29th 2010 9:49 GMT .Poland continues to say "Nyet" to Russian NorthStream gas pipeline.

As repoted by the media, Donald Tusk's meeting with Vladimir Putin, (the first for both politicians as prime ministers of their countries) at the World Economic Forum meeting in Davos produced no progress on the Polish position on the construction of the North European Gas Pipeline (Nord Stream). Donald Tusk was quoted by the media as stating after meeting Putin "I understand the interests of various German and Russian companies, but the Polish point of view will not change ". The Prime Minister stressed that the focus must be on a real diversification of gas supply and the implementation of other projects, rather than on building the Nord Stream. Poland's stand is absolutely correct.

Construction of the marine section of the pipeline, estimated to cost $10 billion, is still in obeyance as Finland, Estonia and Sweden, through whose exclusive economic zones the pipeline would have to pass, are opposed to the project for ecological reasons.
.Recommend (8)PermalinkReport abuse.Tomas Marny wrote: Jan 30th 2010 12:01 GMT .Congratulations to Poland! It’s always good to hear that a Central European country is doing well.

What I’m missing in the article is a thorough analysis of the reasons why Poland has achieved such an exceptional result in the GDP indicator. Construction boom and political stability are important factors but they are surely not enough – for any economy that has been substantially participating in the global business, it must be very hard to stay immune from the significant decrease in global demand in 2008/2009.

I heard that one of the most important factors was an efficient usage of EU funds. Not only regional and agricultural development ones, but also, for instance, many new small enterprises were said to be started up in Poland last year supported by subsidies from EU operational programs; a lot of them by people returning from the work experience in the UK/Ireland. This can a very significant impulse to the domestic economy on both supply and demand sides indeed.

But there’s obviously one big catch that all countries in the region should be aware of: they used to count on the funding sources that are not repeatable – in 1990th most post-communist countries “improved” their national budgets by large privatization revenues. In this decade, they have dried up, but not a negligible number of activities in the economy rely on funding from EU operation programs and development funds instead.

However, the money is sure only for this budget period (2007 – 2013). In the next budget period (2014 – 2020) countries of the region can become net contributors to the EU budget or the amount available for them would be significantly reduced at best. What problems such a fact has caused to countries that used to be the main fund consumers in the past (e.g. Greece, Portugal and Spain) can be seen today. Only Ireland has become an economic tiger in the past years, but that was mainly because as an English-speaking country with reasonable tax policy, it was able to attract many European representations of global companies that have concentrated on the territory of this small island ...

So let's hope that CEE countries manage to set up a sustainable development trend ...
.Recommend (13)PermalinkReport abuse.Tomas Marny wrote: Jan 30th 2010 12:10 GMT .@Joe Solaris

"One request to the Poles, in the interests of European solidarity: when you are building your roads and factories with EU money, please consider that it grates on our western European nerves to see Poland hiring Indian construction companies or buying Chinese machinery."

I think Polish administration should be praised if they didn’t waste the resources and decided to provide some construction contracts to cheaper Chinese companies, or – even better – use Chinese price offers as a reference and a form of pressure during negotiation with European companies (I would not trust much to the Chinese quality if a long-term product like a highway is required).

When we talk about corruption in Central Europe, it is not the “small” corruption that would a common citizen encounter in his/her everyday life. But it’s this “big” corruption where billions of tax-payers money is redistributed in large state purchases and contracts.

It’s a public secret that many honourable “Western” companies have made CEE as a new Eldorado for their operations and “taking advantage” of local corruptible politicians, they set prices of public purchases and contracts to astronomic heights but at the same time provide sub-average quality compared to how they behave in EU15 countries.

I believe that it’s time for the companies to realize that the region is becoming “civilized” and they should set the standards of behavior and quality like in their home countries.

For example, in the Czech Republic, the most soaring problem for the tax payers is just this “concrete lobby” - the country is well known to be building the most expansive infrastructure in the world. And the involved companies parasiting on tax payers are by far not only local companies with direct connection to politicians (e.g. Viamont) but also European giants – Skanska and Strabag or toll-system provider Kapsch. The trick is very simple – the corrupted state officials prepare tender conditions in such way that could be satisfied only by a selected company (which may include various bizarre conditions that do not have any real justification). Subsequently the selection procedure is done transparently stating that all other companies were excluded because they didn’t satisfy the criteria even though they could offer much lower prices….

But as the tenders are under constant pressure of media and involved companies make a very bad reputation among the public, several global companies (Skanska, Ernst & Young, Marsh, …) have just recently announced an initiative that they start behaving transparently in the country. Although it’s a PR statement to large extent, I hope it’s a good start because they realize that public perceives losses caused by these overpriced state contracts very seriously, especially at the time of economic recession causing decreased tax revenues and budget restrictions …
.Recommend (16)PermalinkReport abuse.pjarecky wrote: Jan 30th 2010 12:56 GMT .Your comments on Polish economy are so-so OK, but this is how your magazine is titled “The Economist”, isn’t it?

Having said that, the paragraphs on Polish political scene are laughable and grossly misleading, to say the least. As if they were written (or even worse - ordered and paid) by some Civic Platform apparatchiks.

Sorry to observe how the current editorial team is ruining what the Economist has been known for many years, well intended advocacy journalism you replace with cheap tabloid propaganda.
.Recommend (11)PermalinkReport abuse.mirmat wrote: Jan 30th 2010 4:21 GMT .Marcin_PL wrote:
Jan 29th 2010 9:35 GMT

@ mirmat
"You have to take into consideration that the crisis didn't sneak under Mr. Kaczynski's door... And the current political configuration is a bit less intrusive than the previous one. A citizen is not moralised by an army of the "priest-in-chief" on every step of the way and we do not have to be extremely embarrassed for type of the Lepper sort..."

Tusk did not arrived on Polish political stage in 2007 but his group, under many different party names was active since 1989. His economical guru was former communist apparatchik (member of the Communist party since 1969), Balcerowicz. The same as today, economical philosophy has been imposed on Poland during Balcerowicz rein as Finance Minister from 1997 till 2001 and ended with catastrophic budget deficit and economical stagnation. No world crisis "sneak under Mr. Balcerowicz door" at that time. Poland 1.7% GDP "increase" is also misleading, when is compared to other European countries GDP change. 1.7% is calculated in Polish zloty, which dramatically dropped after 2007 with relation to euro ( 1 euro = 4.1 zl at the end of 2009, 1 euro = 3.6 at the end of 2007). Comparing Poland GDP to others GDP calculated in the same currency show quite different picture. And our Polish citizens ARE moralized by an army of "media" Talking Heads willing to please ruling class.
.Recommend (1)PermalinkReport abuse.nanader wrote: Jan 30th 2010 9:23 GMT .Well, in Poland we have a long tradition to complain. Contrary to the author's view, I don't think that following the footsteps of UK or US would be beneficial to Polish people.

- The current government has a terrible environmental policy, and even impositions from Brussels are to a large extent realized reluctantly.

- Polish media are not puritanical, they are controlled by Western corporations (eventually, Polish people are puritanical - that's quite true, a good start to coin a new stereotype). Plurality of views is, therefore, not present in our media - that's partly why we have a single party's parliamentary majority from proportional elections!

- In Poland there is growing socio-economic inequality. In Western Europe it wouldn't matter that much, but in Poland the safety nets and the potential for growth of domestic consumption are threatened by this tendency

- we have awful shortcomings in terms of pro-family policies. The fact that relatively small percentage of workforce actually is employed doesn't mean they're unemployed. Mothers especially, take their time to raise their children in the best possible way. Is that bad? From my experience of USA and UK (and of the kids of the rich from Poland) crave for excessive prosperity brings personal loneliness and family pathologies. We need something different!
.Recommend (1)PermalinkReport abuse.kamil.plewnia wrote: Jan 30th 2010 11:14 GMT .I've just had an impression that article was written by Mr Sikorski's friend(e.g. Edward Lucas, Central-European correspondent)- pure Civic Platform propaganda.
The article is poor and misleading. Most of the reforms that were mentioned have not been introduced yet, despite the fact that it has been already more than two years after the parliamentary election. The only aim of that government is to last without an effort with support from the mainstream media. Mr Tusk has finally realised that it is not enough to win presidential election.
Regards
.Recommend (10)PermalinkReport abuse.cegorach wrote: Jan 30th 2010 12:17 GMT .Just to inform other readers - the article made some impression on supporters of the Law and Justice so expect more comments how Poland is heading to fall.

Expect more comments about wide-spread corruption, incompetence and all sorts s of disasters which will strike Poland or already struck it.

Oh and one more thing - don't be suprised if someone declares Poland an occupied state under the yoke of the EU, Germany, Russia, Martians and the lizards from Draconis. This text was 'reviewed' in Salon24 where the most loonatic supporters preach their 'truths' so one might eventually appear even here.

I believe they will be somehow less active after the coming presidential elections, fortunatelly.

@JoeSolaris

"I know that almost all Polish factories are working 24 hours a day. But when a problem comes up at midnight, my customers call me expecting service. You know, we have this small, insignificant institution here in Italy called the Vatican. For decades the Church declared that "forcing" workers into midnight shifts was immoral, especially since it risked breaking up families by removing Papà from hearth and home.
I can't wait for Poland to achieve (and I am willing to fund economic assistance for): 5% unemployment, 100% of average European GDP per capita and stronger unions so that there might be more uniform working rules around Europe."

Hmm... you know the unions are strong in Poland. Perhaps too strong, especially in some sectors of heavier industry (mining, steel, shipyards etc).

Poland hardly learnt capitalism from the Americans in most cliche-inspired way.
Trade unions in the US are pretty powerful and so are in Poland. Always were, sometimes certainly too strong.
The most extreme case is the Gdansk Shipyard which was ruined by uncontested reign of trade unions.

If anything this government is the first in post-1989 Poland which isn't supported by at least one powerful trade union lobby. Which is even more important considering rapid politicisation of trade unions.

For example 'Solidarnosc' is now placed together with the Law and Justice, while OPZZ with Left Democratic Alliance, though in the last case it is hard who is leading whom.
.Recommend (11)PermalinkReport abuse.nanader wrote: Jan 30th 2010 2:25 GMT .@cegorach
A seemingly fervent supporter of the current regime in Poland.

I don't see why trade unions are bad. They are sources of power against the prevailing power, a grassroot force to be reckoned with - thanks to them, the companies' and the workers' interests generally maintain a relatively healthy balance at the workplaces.

One who ridicules criticisms, no matter how good or bad, claims moral superiority and infallibity. Eventually, people critical of the current government are not supporters ('followers' according to die-hard believers in Tusk) of Law and Justice.
There are from many backgrounds, and have no good representation on the political scene - that's why the turnouts on elections have been so low in Poland compared to other European countries.
.Recommend (2)PermalinkReport abuse.ChrisFrance wrote: Jan 30th 2010 3:07 GMT .The growth for 2009 was 1.7% not 1.2%. Growth in 2010 will be around 3%. The banking system is solid and not a single bank has needed bailouts or handouts. Corruption in government is almost non existent if compared to levels in 1990. In terms of infrastructure lots of progress has been made. Thousands of miles of motorways will be built by 2020. Poland has a much less socialist economy than say the UK as it only collects about 25% of GDP in taxes whereas the UK collects nearly 50% of GDP in taxes.

Most importantly unemployment. I saw a comment above saying it is at a very high level of 12% - well not really. In Poland the reported figure for unemployment is a nominal figure. Basically it is the amount of people without a full time job as a percentage of all people able to work full time. This is a completely different number to say the figure of unemployment reported by the USA. Those figures are not nominal and they do not include many people capable of full time work. If you measure unemployment in the USA the way it is measured in Poland the USA has an unemployment rate of about 25%. If you measure unemployment in Poland the way it is measured in the UK than Poland has an unemployment rate of about 7-8%, the UK in nominal terms has a rate of about 20%. In Poland unemployment is much lower than both the USA and the UK it is just that those western governments manipulate the figures. Poland is on the up and the UK is on the down.
.Recommend (20)PermalinkReport abuse.from Gdansk wrote: Jan 30th 2010 3:29 GMT .It is nice to read a positive article about Poland's economy, especially when as far as its general state is concerned there are valid reasons to feel positive. Yet when it comes to the political analysis, oh dear... For a start, while it is true that in the recently unfavourable climate Poland's economy has fared much better than most, this not thanks to the current government, but to the business attitude of Polish people, who are much better than most nations at being able to cope without expecting any help from the state at all (and, indeed, for the last 60 odd years, by and large, none has been coming). A large number of ordinary Poles have over the last 20 years simply made good use of the normal economic freedoms that were restored after the collapse of totalitarian communism.

Paradoxically, the current government has been described by one journalist (an economic liberal) as "the worst ever" in free Poland, and I personally agree with that appraisal. As far as governments are concerned, the previous one had actually managed to reduce the budget deficit and also lower income tax. So what has the current one done?

As for Radek Sikorski's foreign policy and the "warming of relations", you must be joking! Must I recount all the insults Moscow has aimed at Poland over the last two years? And relations with Germany aren't all the rosy either. Finally, if Poland's economy is so strong, why has she been included in the G20? Radek's "charm" failed again?
.Recommend (6)PermalinkReport abuse.Roman1000 wrote: Jan 30th 2010 6:50 GMT .Intresting article, but not fully precise, more news about Poland, it would be nice
.Recommend (1)PermalinkReport abuse.mikeinwarsaw wrote: Jan 30th 2010 36 GMT .Some of the blogger comments, specially the virulent ones made by supporters of the incumbent President "Mr I veto all reforms" Kaczynski, make interesting reading.

Unfortunately in 1997 the New Constitution that was passed by both Houses of Parliament and by general referendum of the voting public, re-introduced into Polish politics a unique feature which destroyed the parliamentary democracy that was the Polish/Lithuanian Republic between 1654 and 1791: Liberum Veto: the legal right of one man to destroy parliamentary legislation by imposing a one man veto without the counter possibility of impeachment.

Kaczynski has over the past 2 years vetoed a mass of necessary reforms passed by Parliament under the elected government of Prime Minister Tusk. For that alone Kaczynski deserves, together with his populist ultra nationalist followers, to be confined to the dustbin of history!
.Recommend (10)PermalinkReport abuse.Ras Fufu wrote: Jan 31st 2010 2:01 GMT .I always regarded Mr. Sikorski as a kind of Washington ally, mainly due to the political leanings of his wife, well established in some Washington circles. Therefore I would be unhappy to see him as a leader. I doubt at his independence.

Besides- is Poland a democratic country? Nope! We have bizzarre finance regulation for parties. That is why there is only 4 of them, of which all are socialist, but 3 of them are conservative socialists (Civic Platform being more progressive conservative socialists).

Entry barriers are very high, about 20 million PLN (4 million GBP) for parliamentary campaign. Once a liberal party was established (Forum Liberalne), but due to this financial surroundings that completely discriminate new entrants, they had to discontinue.

We even do not have media except for tabloid press. Polish public network TVP compared to BBC is a government-propaganda and soap-operas only TV station. Railways are so dilapitated, trains go 10-20 mph, as in Silesia. Except for 3 or four lines no one have heard on any modernisations. Socialists from Civic Platform are building roads, but that is not very efficient for our environment and future generations. Public transport is a disaster in waiting.

Science is nearly non-existent. Best Polish universities rank 500-th or even below. There is no money for new research, even on economics. Housing slumsifies, especially when it is owned by communes. Cities like Waldenburd or Liegnitz mainly turned slums already. Warsaw's Prag is nothing more than a hudge slum.

The country is a disaster in waiting.
.Recommend (6)PermalinkReport abuse.polgrad wrote: Jan 31st 2010 3:30 GMT .@Ras Fufu

don't you think you exagerrated a bit?
.Recommend (6)PermalinkReport abuse.JoeSolaris wrote: Jan 31st 2010 9:27 GMT .I must agree with the last comment from "from Gdansk".
The failure of the former G8 countries to include Poland in the new G20 risks having long-term negative implications, and not just because Poland is missing some sort of "feather in its cap".
As the largest economy of ex-socialist Central Europe, Poland should have been a natural spokesman for the economic and political exigencies of the region. For example, inclusion in the G20 would have given the Poles a chance to decry at an international level the unfairness of foreign- (western- ) owned banks cutting back on liquidity in the region.
Who in the G20 speaks for Central Europe now? Russia? Italy? Germany? The UK? By and large I think the leadership of these countries will tend to look toward the U.S., a harbinger of future divisions within the European Union.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Antiguo 06-feb-2010, 21:36
Avatar de Bulldozerbass
Burbujista obsesivo
 
Fecha de Ingreso: 12-febrero-2007
Mensajes: 2.184
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3.770 Agradecimientos de 988 mensajes
Ignorar usuario para siempre
Poland's strong economy
Horse power to horsepower
Economic growth and a strong, stable government to boot: time to rethink old notions about Poland
See articleJan 28th 2010

ChrisFrance wrote: Jan 31st 2010 10:38 GMT .I disagree with the comments of Ras Fufu. Poland is much less socialist than pretty much all Western European countries. For example: unemployment benefits are temporary not permanent; support for parents and single mothers is very low; access to any type of incapacity benefits are very rare; spending on health is capped to name just a few. And more cuts are coming. If you dont believe me look at how much Poland collects in all taxes: about 25% of GDP. The UK collects nearly 50% of GDP in taxes making it much more socialist.

As far as the Civic Platform is concerned: they are much more liberal than any party in the UK. Just look at labour and the conservatives: proper socialists in disguise offering benefits for everyone from married people to people who have never before worked to getting paid to go to school. There are more than 100 types of benefits in the UK. This is reflected in debt: the UK borrowed 186 billion pounds in 2009, Poland borrowed 5 billion and this 5 billion will be cut very soon too.

As far as the BBC is concerned: in the UK you pay 160 pounds a year for the licence, in Poland you pay one seventh of that and for that price you still get a descent service. Besides, commercial television fills the gaps left by public tv.

I actually think the UK is a disaster waiting to happen because socialism cannot compete with liberalism in the 21 century.
.Recommend (12)PermalinkReport abuse.kamil.plewnia wrote: Jan 31st 2010 12:29 GMT .@mikeinwarsaw:
You are just obsessed with Mr Kaczyński and Law and Justice party. I really don't know what your problem is. President vetoed very few bills(around 15 in more than two years)- so-called "reforms". But this argument is riculous anyway because President has a very strong mandate. In fact more people voted for him than for Civic Platform.
You clearly don't know how to attack the incumbent President if you use cliche anti-semitic arguments against him. He is the most pro-Israeli president in the last 20 years. MEP Michał Kamiński because of his stupid youth's mistakes was accused of being anti-semite but was later defended by British Jews who called him an Israeli nation's friend. Just please stop using these irrational arguments because clearly they are created by your imagination.
Regards
.Recommend (12)PermalinkReport abuse.kamil.plewnia wrote: Jan 31st 2010 12:54 GMT .@ mikeinwarsaw:
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was formed in 1569 by the Union of Lublin- Unia Lubelska.
Regards
.Recommend (5)PermalinkReport abuse.Ioan wrote: Jan 31st 2010 2:41 GMT .I think that, beyond the details of internal political context, the Central European member states of the European Union must be aware of the general dynamics of EU, Central Europe, each CE country separately.

This is of course not to say that we did not get involved so far. But I think that our voice is too weak for the moment, and we should change that (by being more efficient internationally, not by merely making more noise).

I also think that this is even more important for the countries that have the potential (and also a duty, I would say; because of their size and geography) to ******** as pillars for CE and for EU, namely Poland and Romania - the only two (relatively) large countries of the set.

(I also agree with JoeSolaris that) I would have liked to see Poland in the G20 club.

Reading all the comments by the readers before me, I have noticed a lot of simmilarities (good or ... less good) with Romania. I have no doubt that some are also common from Baltics to Hungary to Bulgaria.

We do not have a representative in G20, but I think that Poland, Romania (at least) and others should jointly defend their interrests inside EU (and thus also have an impact at the G20 level). With few exceptions, this has not happened so far, each country being very much absorbed by INTERNAL interminable debates. Of course, many such internal debatesare necessary, but we cannot afford to let others decide for us internationally.

To my knowledge, some actions in the directions of such an association are already being taken. They surely need to be further developped and reinforced.
.Recommend (4)PermalinkReport abuse.Tomas Marny wrote: Jan 31st 2010 6:04 GMT .Every country that would like to apply for the G-XX membership should be aware of the fact that every fun has its price!

The results of G20 summits usually include many obligations – and all the members are expected to participate. For example, in spring 2009 Czech politicians took part in the London G20 summit as representatives of EU presidency (in fact G20 is G19 + EU). To show that they are “on pair” with the other G20 members they agreed that the Czech Republic would provide 1.03 billion Euro to IMF for funding countries that need stabilization loans in crisis a part G20 summit obligations (the overall summit obligations were 1.1 trillion USD!). While it’s important to help countries in need for sure, I guess that as a regular member, tax payers of any post-communist country would be soon “exhausted” ;-)

http://www.londonsummit.gov.uk/en/su...nts/summit-out...

In general, I personally think that the whole concept of G20 (that has developed historically from G8 by including new economic powers of the third world) is obsolete. In particular, EU is represented by its presidency but several EU members have historically separate memberships. This only bruises forces of EU countries and does not make them transparent and strong (I’m always angry when I hear that for example USA provides higher help or whatever in the world economy but nobody realizes that EU countries provide help both separately AND as EU which seems that EU is optically not so generous). Moreover, multiple representations do not correspond to strong economic integration among EU countries.

Therefore, on the world level (not only in economy), I would recommend to keep only a single strong EU voice (represented by presidency), but the strategies for the summits should be, of course, pre-negotiated beforehand, on the level of all EU members.
.Recommend (2)PermalinkReport abuse.thuson wrote: Jan 31st 2010 10:34 GMT .This article demonstrates the Economist's strengths and weaknesses. The text is well-written with a good thesis and is generally accurate though perhaps slightly off-base on some details (if we can rely on readers' comments). The excellent chart portrays key supporting data clearly. The subtitles, "Economic growth and a strong, stable government to boot: time to rethink old notions about Poland" and "Poland's strong economy" tell us the thesis and whether we want to read further.

However, the photo is a completely useless distraction that even contradicts the thesis. The main title "Horse power to horsepower" is a lame attempt at cuteness, telling us nothing that is not already in both subtitles. Unfortunately, the Print Edition's table of contents is based on these useless main titles, so using the Print Edition's table of contents is always an exercise in frustration.

How amazing that the Economist can be consistently so brilliant and so stupid. It must be that hubris from accolades for good writing generates a failure to pay attention to readers basic needs.
.Recommend (6)PermalinkReport abuse.jwojcie wrote: Feb 1st 2010 12:15 GMT .@JoeSolaris
"Are you suggesting Polish roads are inadequate because there was a conspiracy to keep cement prices too high?"

Heh, you had to put some effort into it to interpretate my posts in such way... The only point of my statement was to show, that because of boom and shallow market, free market degenerated into even some forms of monopoly and law breaking. The only sensible solution was to bring more competition. Invitation for Chinese did exactly that.
.Recommend (1)PermalinkReport abuse.Kalky wrote: Feb 1st 2010 11:06 GMT .Just strange you forgot to report Radosław Sikorski left the 'Law and Justice' parliamentary NOW opposition club only on September 12, 2007.

By the way, his wife is Anne Elizabeth Applebaum. She belongs to THE ECONOMIST journalist club.
.Recommend (3)PermalinkReport abuse.ObsTheTimes wrote: Feb 1st 2010 5:14 GMT .The horse image is not meant to be interpreted as stereotypical. It is a visual pun to the title 'Horse power to Horsepower'.
But i can see why that might not resonate with some readers.
.RecommendPermalinkReport abuse.Kremilek wrote: Feb 1st 2010 9:07 GMT .Thanks. There is indeed a huge progress but still a lot of work to do!

By the way, what exactly does author mean by centuries of shambolic goverment? Since between 1792-1989 there has been only 20 years, 1918-1939, when Poland existed as a fully sovereign country. I can imagine that there are periods in the Polish history which can be named in such a way but I am not quite sure if prejudices were formed in 18th century. Anyway, a plausible explanation is that the author wanted to increase contrast between the past and the present situation. The same holds for the photo. So maybe not to offend anyone, one should put there a photo of skyscrapers in Warsaw and instead of shambolic goverment use the term "non-existent" goverment.:-)
.Recommend (2)PermalinkReport abuse.Quite Like Frank wrote: Feb 2nd 2010 3:59 GMT ."...(a scandal about lobbying by the gambling industry is outraging Poland’s puritanical media)..."

Lobbying is an affront to democracy and poisonous to representative democracies everywhere. Collusion between business and government is antithetical to a free market system. Kudos to the Polish for looking upon it with disgust.
.Recommend (3)PermalinkReport abuse.Adam16 wrote: Feb 4th 2010 11:01 GMT .If you leave all this politics and foreign policy aside what really matters that we Polish men are hard working people, leaving in quite nice country with sea access, mountains, very flat with good soil(building roads should be just fun...), mineral resources, well educated with no significant national or religious minorities. So if we are not troubled by our powerful neighbours and have government which does not at least disturb then we can just get only richer. Also Poles have to "show off" (in fact we have complex of our poverty) that they have better homes, cars in comparison to their neighbours. It is not so good to have complexes but in fact they help GDP growing.
.Recommend (2)PermalinkReport abuse.A delamy wrote: Feb 4th 2010 1:17 GMT .This article is third rate. For a paper that calls itself the “Economist” you would expect it to get the GDP figure for last year correct. The figure is 1.7% and not 1.2%. What is more the analysis is really shallow with little understanding of what is actually happening in Poland. The positive comments are grudging at best, and a real comparison between what is happening in a country like Poland and a country like the U.K for instance, is still required. I think ChrisFrance is on the money with his analysis, he shows a far better understanding of the country than the author with what is obviously a lackadaisical attempt at preparing this article.
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Antiguo 07-feb-2010, 04:54
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Otro "polaco" mas por aqui. Llevo ya 3 años viviendo en Varsovia.

No estoy del todo de acuerdo con lo que se ha dicho. Voy a dar mi opinion:

Amiguismos: eim? provenimos del reino del enchufismo, hispanistan. Todo lo que sea de Pirineos hacia el norte en este sentido es mejor. Aqui en los ambientes profesionales que me he movido, salvo en lo que respecta a Embajada donde el circulo "español" es muy pequeño y se conocen todos, no existen enchufismos. Hay mucha, mucha competitividad. Tanta como que es normal que gente con 27 años llevan 8 trabajando. Trabajando en serio, no en un pizzahut como me toco a mi en mis tiempos jovenes. Ahora bien, yo sin amiguismos he podido firmar 3 contratos de trabajo "polacos" desde que estoy aqui. Vas a la entrevista, y si sabes y das la talla, te contratan.

Polaco: si, es necesario, para el 96% de trabajos. Quitando los trabajos 100% tecnicos en empresas multinacionales, en donde siempre puede existir la posibilidad de encontrar una plaza en ingles. No hay que extrañarse, son 40 millones de habitantes y usan su idioma, como nosotros usamos el español. Durante los ultimos 15 meses he trabajado en polaco, defendiendome como bien he podido. Ahora cambio de trabajo, y será mitad en polaco, mitad en ingles. Para el dia a dia es necesario saber un minimo de polaco (por lo menos tener ganas de aprenderlo). Nunca te trataran igual de bien si te diriges a ellos en polaco, o en ingles. Nada de lo que extrañarse, repito, lo mismo pasa en España si te dirijes a alguien en ingles (suerte si el español consigue entenderte).

Sueldos/curros: veo muchas diferencias salariales entre oficios. Puedes ser un abogado o un ingeniero y cobrar 2500eur (10.000pln) al mes, o ser una tendera o una enfermera y ganar 400eur al mes (1500pln). Hay muchas diferencias salariales, y hay oficios que estan muy, muy mal pagados comparando con el coste de vida. El sueldo medio en la region de Varsovia creo que eran unos 3800pln brutos (900eur brutos).

Curros: el horario de trabajo es cojonudo. Entro a las 9, salgo a las 17h. De esas 8 horas, 1 hora puedo estar comiendo. Suele ser bastante habitual este horario si trabajas en oficinas. En Varsovia hay bastante trabajo, a pesar de que aqui tambien se habla de "crisis" (pero ni mucho menos al nivel de pavor que hay en España cuando se pronuncia esa palabra). Mejor o peor pagado, pero hay cosillas. La gente de Varsovia tambien se queja de los polacos "de pueblo" que emigran a la ciudad. Supongo que eso pasara en todos los paises donde tengan centralizado todo en la capital.

Vivienda: ha subido enormemente en los ultimos años. El precio de los pisos se ha duplicado en 3-4 años. Hoy en dia el coste medio en Varsovia es de unos 2000-2250eur por metro cuadrado. Si comparando con el sueldo medio, se ve claramente que el precio no se corresponde con las capacidades de un ciudadano "medio". Que pasa? que la gente esta acostumbrada a vivir en pisos pequeños, de 30-50m2. Antiguamente, durante el regimen comunista era normal ver familias viviendo en pisos de 1 sola habitacion. El hijo dormia en la habitacion y los padres en el salon. Pocas personas conozco en Varsovia que vivan en pisos de mas de 70m2, a no ser que sean heredados o los hubieran comprado antes del "boom" durante el 2001-2004. Paradojicamente como os comento la palabra "crisis" todavia no ha tomado tintes madmaxistas aqui como en España, y siguen pensando que el precio va a seguir subiendo, que estan en Europa, y que siguen en tendencia alcista. Ha habido una epoca ahora en la que el precio ha bajado un poquito, pero los "developers" siguen erre que erre haciendo campaña en plan "INVIERTE ahora en un piso". Creo Varsovia va a ser otro de los ejemplos de burbuja, tiempo al tiempo.

Cena metra kwadratowego mieszkania wg GUS <--- aqui podeis ver graficos sobre la evolucion de los precios medios por ciudad. Varsovia paso de 3200zl/m2 (unos 800eur/m2) en 2000, a 4094 (1050eur/m2) en 2005, a los 8500zl/m2 de hoy en dia. La subida ha sido brutal, asi que abstenerse los "hinversoreh's" españoles de aterrizar por aqui a inflar más la burbuja, please


Transporte: barato el bono de 3 meses de bono de tranvia-bus-metro. Sale por unos 180pln (45eur) los tres meses. La gasolina esta cara, del orden de 4,10eur/litro. Taxis sobre 40centimos/75 centimos de euro el kilometro, dependiendo la compañia.

Comida/supermercados/restaurantes: la comida es buena, a pesar de lo que hay dicho nuestro conforero Bulldozerbass. Si la comparas con la española, pues hombre, cualquier pais sale perdiendo (salvo Francia-Italia que andan a la par). Pero comparandola con los paises nordicos, o Alemania, o la basura de Reino Unido... Polonia es un placer. Ademas para casos de extrema necesidad de productos nacionales siempre puedes tirar de tiendas como Strona g?ówna - Solera Sabor a España - Hurtownia hiszpa?skich artyku?ów spo?ywczych . Respecto a los supermercados, están aqui asentadas las grandes cadenas (REAL, Tesco, Carrefour, Makro), y se puede encontrar todo lo necesario para vivir. Salvo algun pescado fresco en concreto, y algun producto 100% nacional español, pocas cosas echaras en falta. En cuanto a los restaurantes pues hay de todo y para todos los bolsillos. En general se come abundante, bien, y por poco dinero ("poco" dependiendo de lo que cobres, claro). Los españoles siempre salen encantados cuando vienen de visita y les saco a comer por ahi.

Cervezas, medio litro desde 1,5eur a 2,5eur. Los cubatas los cargan menos que en España, y valen unos 4-5-6eur. La gente es muy animada, bailan todos cualquier cosa que suene. Los españoles solemos quedar mirandonos con la copa en la mano, es facil identificarnos.

Gente: la gente es encantadora y abierta. Son bastante "latinillos" en el sentido de que son abiertos, y les gusta trapichear si la ocasion lo permite. Quizas la necesidad y el tener poco dinero les ha llevado a ser asi, no lo se. El nivel de analfabetismo es mucho mas bajo que en España. Son bastante educados en ciertas formas, como por ejemplo: en el metro si no cedes el asiento a un viejo la gente te mira mal. O si no dejas pasar primero a las mujeres tambien te echan una mirada acusadora de "machista español!". Las chicas no son comparables a las españolas. En general son más maduras, mas guapas y más serias (en cuanto a relacion se entiende). Comparar una polaca de 26 años, con una española de 26 años, es ver un abismo. La polaca seguramente ya lleve unos años trabajando, quizas viviendo independientemente, y con un novio con el cual pretendera pronto casarse. Y la española estara terminando sus estudios o empezando a trabajar de becaria, en casa de sus padres, pensando en la fiesta del fin de semana y deshojando la margarita si el chico con el que está le gusta o es solo un rollo pasajero. En cuanto a los chicos, pues quitando que los españoles somos mas guapos que los polacos (:P), la comparacion se puede aplicar de identico modo.

En cuanto a politica, es una sociedad mayoritariamente de derechas (más o menos radicalmente). Son bastante conservadores en cuanto a tradiciones, y bastante nacionalistas. Les gusta su pais aunque mantengan con el una relacion de amor-odio (lo amo porque soy polaco ante todo y amo mis tradiciones, pero odio las cosas que nos dan mala imagen, y el rol de "pobres de Europa"). Ha habido muchos polacos que han emigrado, pero alla donde van siempre intentan mantener su identidad, y siempre miran de reojillo el momento de poderser volver. Son bastante mas religiosos que la media española; aqui he visto a jovenes en las iglesias, en España eso ya no se ve.

Infrastructuras: las carreteras son malas, malisimas, y faltan de construirse muchas cosas. Pero si es cierto que todavia hay fondos europeos y se van haciendo poco a poco. A veces si que muy poco a poco, como el caso que oi hace un par de años, que decia que en todo el año solo se habian llegado a construir 30 km´s de autopista. Pienso que todo llegara, y que van a mejorar por supuesto, como España lo hizo. Pero tambien sé una cosa: esto nunca sera Alemania (eso solo se lo cree el tonto de ZP, y mira donde estamos ahora).

Clima: en invierno los dias son cortos (a finales de diciembre anochece a las 15.30), y las temperaturas entre -25 a 5 grados. En verano te asas, y los dias son muy, muy largos. En primavera es una gozada ver como los arboles florecen, la ciudad literalmente se convierte en una jungla de color y se llena de gente por las calles.

Opinion personal: si tienes que venir aqui "obligado" como yo, pues realmente no esta tan mal y no se vive mal. Varsovia es una ciudad moderna, todo lo que busques lo puedes encontrar. Si lo puedes pagar se vive comodamente y no falta de nada. Lo que menos me gusta de Polonia/Varsovia, a parte de las carreteras, son las diferencias sociales: ver a un hombre forrado salir de su super Mercedes, y al lado un tio que tiene justito para comprarse uno de segunda mano traido de cualquier pais del Oeste. Pienso que se han hecho capitalistas demasiado rapido, piensan mucho en el dinero y les gusta enseñar (para lo poco que se cobra gastan buenos coches en general). Tampoco me gusta el megaburbujon inmobiliaria que se ha plantado. No pienso ni harto de vino comprarme un piso a ese precio.

Dicho esto, si no fuera por mi señora, seguramente me habria quedado en Alemania trabajando Polonia no es una buena opcion para emigrar, a no ser que vengas con un buen contrato debajo del brazo, vengas por una chic@, o seas un expatriado (estos si que viven bien).

Saludos! Pozdrawiam!

Carreteras malas, burbujon inmobiliario, gente que quiere aparentar, diferencias sociales extremas, pensamientos de amor-odio con su propio pais, "si lo puedes pagar vives bien", gasolina cara y sueldos como aqui...y para eso has salido de España?
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Antiguo 07-feb-2010, 05:25
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Una pregunta: ¿en Polonia hay el mismo aborregamiento y la misma sinrazón que hay aquí?

Y no me refiero a los políticos. Me refiero a la gente corriente.
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Antiguo 10-feb-2010, 09:23
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Una pregunta: ¿en Polonia hay el mismo aborregamiento y la misma sinrazón que hay aquí?

Y no me refiero a los políticos. Me refiero a la gente corriente.

Desde mi punto de vista el aborregamiento es evidente. El 80% de la población va a misa los Domingos donde les dicen hasta cómo se tienen que atar los zapatos.
La televisión es ¨brainwashing¨ total. La prensa también.
Pero no conozco muchos países donde los medios no tengan aborregada a la masa, en Polonia se da el añadido de que la Iglesia Católica es un centro de poder fortísimo, con todo lo que ello implica.
Ahora bien, la sinrazón no es igual que en España en el sentido de que la gente no vive por encima de sus posibilidades, no están endeudados hasta los dientes, son muy conservadores y desconfían cuando un extraño les ofrece un caramelo.
Cualquier taxista conoce cuánto valen, por ejemplo, los materiales de construcción y se descojona de los precios de catálogo de la vivienda. Las promociones construidas y vacias se ven por doquier en Varsovia y, aunque los bancos dan financiación, es la gente la que no quiere endeudarse a esos precios.
Los polacos, siempre desde mi punto de vista, son más espartanos, aguantan más por su carácter y aunque no es gente extremadamente lista ni pícara, tampoco son tan tontos como para comprar una vivienda sobrevalorada.
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Antiguo 10-feb-2010, 19:26
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Comenzaron una carretera en una ciudad y en otra a la vez, para que se unieran en un punto intermedio ambos tramos. Pues cuando quisieron unirse estaban a 30 km una de otra. La unión les ha dicho que o dejan de hacer el cabestro o les retiran los fondos. Sorry no tengo fuente pero fue muy sonado.

Me descojoné al leer esto porque aparte de que es graciosísimo... ¡¡¡ya ha pasado antes!!!

Cuando se construyó el primer ferrocarril transcontinental en USA tras la Guerra de Secesión, dos compañías se encargaron, la Central Pacific, que partía de California, y la Union Pacific que partía del Medio Oeste, para encontrarse en algún punto intermedio.

El gobierno, para que se dieran prisa, les daba un subsidio por cada milla de vía férrea tendida. Cobraban a destajo, cuanta más prisa se dieran, más millas harían, y más cobraban.

Aparte de que con el tendido hubo unos chanchullos que ríase usted del AVE, pues el presidente de la Union Pacific, modificó el trazado para que pasara por tierras de su propiedad, entre otras cosas, como usar testaferros para comprar más acciones que el 10% del límite legal. Claro que los otros no se quedaban mancos, ya que la Central Pacific recurrió a obreros chinos para tender su línea, como mano de obra barata.

Bueno, pues aparte de que se sabotearon los trabajos mutuamente todo lo que pudieron, cuando las dos vías férreas estaban próximas a juntarse, ¡cambiaron el trazado y construyeron las vías paralelas para poder cobrar los dos el subsidio del gobierno!

Hasta que el Congreso descubrió el pastel, después de varias semanas y decenas de kilómetros de vías a ninguna parte, y fijó por su cuenta un punto de conexión.
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Debías, pues, haber entregado mi dinero a los banqueros, y así, al volver yo, habría cobrado lo mío con los intereses. Quitadle, por tanto, su talento y dádselo al que tiene los diez talentos.
Porque a todo el que tiene, se le dará y le sobrará; pero al que no tiene, aun lo que tiene se le quitará.

Mateo 25, 14-30
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Antiguo 17-feb-2010, 02:58
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Carreteras malas, burbujon inmobiliario, gente que quiere aparentar, diferencias sociales extremas, pensamientos de amor-odio con su propio pais, "si lo puedes pagar vives bien", gasolina cara y sueldos como aqui...y para eso has salido de España?

Ya, la verdad es que estoy por temas personales en Polonia. Si fuera por "la pela" hubiera aparcado en Alemania. Total, aprender polaco es tan dificil como aprender aleman, pagan mas y queda mas cerca de casa para las visitas de verano

Estoy ahora mismo de paso por Espana, en una visita forzada por unas vacaciones que me han hecho coger. Llevo ya dos semanas, y en este poco tiempo me he dado cuenta de las millones de cosas que odio de este pais, y que me hacen no tener claro si de verdad quiero volver. Se esta italianizando/latinizando/analfetizando demasiado rapido para mi gusto. El otro dia me dio por poner la tele, y tuve que apagarla porque no lo aguantaba mas... demasiados "porqueyolovalguistas", demasiado cani suelto rondando las calles, demasiadas cosas por cambiar...

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Desde mi punto de vista el aborregamiento es evidente. El 80% de la población va a misa los Domingos donde les dicen hasta cómo se tienen que atar los zapatos.
La televisión es ¨brainwashing¨ total. La prensa también.
Pero no conozco muchos países donde los medios no tengan aborregada a la masa, en Polonia se da el añadido de que la Iglesia Católica es un centro de poder fortísimo, con todo lo que ello implica.

Bulldozer, vuelves a cargar contra los polacos :P Pienso que tu y yo hemos tenido sin mas experiencias distintas en Polonia. Si, son gente mas catolica (y practicante) en general que en Espana, pero ni de lejos diria que el 80% va a misa un domingo. En los pueblos y ciudades menores puede que si, pero no en Varsovia.

La tele polaca es de largo mil veces mejor que la espanola. Alli por lo menos no existe el "cotilleo" de despues de los telediarios, ni Belen Esteban, ni demas bazofias. Existe Telecinco, pero es una television residual.
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"El expolio total, el robo a mano armada a la generación joven por parte de la generación anterior. El ladrillo, los salarios basura, el impuestazo, el paro atroz entre los jovenes... etc todo se debe a lo mismo. A que la generación antigua basa su bienestar , riqueza y tren de vida en la miseria y la condición de semiesclavitud de la generación joven [...]"
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  #28 (permalink)  
Antiguo 03-mar-2010, 23:01
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Bueno, ya se termina el invierno por allí?

Alguno de vosotros sabe como ver Polsat desde España? es que me sale codificado y los abiertos en polaco son un poco basurilla la mayoría.

Sé que se puede comprar un aparato pero es un poco peñazo traerlo desde polonia.¿alguna otra forma?
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Antiguo 04-mar-2010, 17:10
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Pues hoy hace bastante solete (que ya se va yendo por el horizonte poco a poco), aunque hace fresco fuera (2-3 grados)

Polsat ni idea. Supongo que sera suficiente con hacer lo mismo que hacen los españoles que se traen aqui el D+ pero al reves: darte de alta en Polonia en el servicio, llevarte el decodificador a Hiszpania y sintonizar la antena hacia el satelite correspondiente con el que emita Polsat...
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Pacomer dixit:

"El expolio total, el robo a mano armada a la generación joven por parte de la generación anterior. El ladrillo, los salarios basura, el impuestazo, el paro atroz entre los jovenes... etc todo se debe a lo mismo. A que la generación antigua basa su bienestar , riqueza y tren de vida en la miseria y la condición de semiesclavitud de la generación joven [...]"
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Antiguo 04-abr-2010, 19:22
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¿Cuanto cobraria alli un licenciado con ingles + frances + español? con 2 años de experiencia en marketing en una de las empresas mas grandes del mundo? + master en direccion comercial
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