Iniciado por kemao2

Por otro lado, con la cantidad de $ que tienen los chinos se podrian comprar medio EEUU y aun asi les sobraria dinero. Y quien dice EEUU dice Europa, que el $ cada vez está mas fuerte.

China is starting to sound like a normal creditor country

Brad Setser: Follow the Money Blog Archive China is starting to sound like a normal creditor country
Posted on Thursday, December 4th, 2008

By bsetser

Most creditors believe that the debtor needs to take the lead in addressing their own problems. China is, apparently, no different. Geoff Dyer of the Financial Times reports:

Wang Qishan, a vice premier and leader of the Chinese delegation at the two-day talks, called on the US to take swift action to address the crisis and said the two countries needed to work together. “We hope the US side will take the necessary measures to stabilise the economy and financial markets as well as guarantee the safety of China’s assets and investments in the US,” Mr Wang said.

Zhou Xiaochuan, governor of the Chinese central bank, urged the US to rebalance its economy. “Over-consumption and a high reliance on credit is the cause of the US financial crisis,” Mr Zhou said. “As the largest and most important economy in the world, the US should take the initiative to adjust its policies, raise its savings ratio appropriately and reduce its trade and fiscal deficits.”

Jim Fallows’ interview with Gao Xiqing has a similar tone: the US should treat its creditors rather more nicely. Fair enough. China now almost certainly has well over $1 trillion in US Treasury and Agency bonds, and probably close to $1.5 trillion in total dollar exposure (more on that next week). That is a lot by any measure — more than really makes sense.

On the other hand, I hope that Chinese policy makers recognize:

a) They, not the US, decided to intervene heavily and in sustained way to hold their exchange rate down, a policy that necessarily implies financial losses for China. China is effectively overpaying for financial assets (dollar reserves) that it doesn’t need in order to support its export sector. There is no way the US can guarantee China against losses on its holdings of dollars.

b) Investors in highly leveraged financial institutions risk large losses. China’s discomfort with its current losses suggests it never should have bought large stakes in major financial institutions. One of the concerns Larry Summers raised about sovereign wealth fund investments in large financial institutions is such investments would turn the always difficult decision to wipe out the equity of a failed financial institution into a foreign policy decision. That rings true.

c) Given how much the US imports from China, it is hard to see how the US can increase its savings (and reduce its trade deficit) without putting pressure on China’s export sector. Indeed, right now the US consumer seems to be following PBoC governor Zhou’s advice to save more - that is one reason why China’s exports have slowed. And that hardly has made Chinese policy makers happy. Right now a smaller US fiscal deficit would imply even bigger falls in global demand for China’s products.

d) If China wants to maintain its trade surplus — and in the process to maintain a world where China’s exports are growing faster than the world’s imports, meaning that China’s global market share is rising — other countries will necessarily have to run a trade deficit. If oil remains in the 40s, some of that deficit will likely come from the world’s oil exporters. But they can finance their deficit by selling existing US and European assets. They won’t necessary need to take on new debt and borrow China’s surplus. A lot of the offsetting deficit will likely come from the US. By the same token, China can only save more than it invests if someone else invests more than it saves, and thus needs to borrow from the rest of the world — just as the US can only invest more than it saves if someone else (like China’s government) is willing to lend it the funds it needs. There aren’t many places in the world that are likely to absorb China’s projected $400 billion current account surplus.

Chinese complains about loose US policy are a bit at odds with other Chinese policy choices that are aimed at supporting China’s exports.

I would have more sympathy for China’s concerns about its export sector — and the loss of jobs in its export sector — if:

a) China wasn’t running a large current account surplus as a result of policy choices in this decade that had the predictable result of leading to over-investment in China’s export sector, and thus increased China’s vulnerability to a global slowdown (click here for a summary of the article I linked to above that is not behind a firewall).

b) If China wasn’t still widely forecast to grow more rapidly than almost anyone else, which admittedly isn’t saying all that much right now.

c) If China didn’t have the capacity to support employment through a large domestic stimulus. For example, the World Bank is forecasting a smaller swing in China’s fiscal balance in 2009 than seems likely in the US.

d) If China hadn’t pursued a capital intensive development path that has been creating many jobs for a long-time. Effectively China has substituted capital-intensive exports for labor-intensive exports; remember, it is exporting way more in 2008 than in 2007.

e) If Chinese exports weren’t expected to grow faster (or shrink by less) than the world’s imports. Remember China has been gaining global market share for the past several years. And yes, that is something that is, in my view, directly tied to the exchange rate — China’s market share in Europe soared after the RMB fell v the euro. The World Bank forecasts that this will continue in 2009 even with the RMB’s recent broad appreciation … (See figure 2 and the table on p. 9 of the World Bank Quarterly)

The slump in global trade — Korea’s exports were way down in November, and given US auto sales, Japan’s exports likely will be too — is sure to increase trade tensions. And as China starts to realize the costs of its export subsidies — and the fact that avoiding incurring financial losses on its existing investment requires making an ever bigger financial bet on the US and the US dollar — it sure seems that China wants a bit more say over US policy. That too is a potential source of tension.

China effectively choose to loose money lending to the US when it scaled up its purchases of dollars to resist pressure for the RMB to appreciate and in the process subsidize its export sector. But I doubt China sees it that way.

Iniciado por kemao2

Si EEUU se cae los chinos y los europeos se caen detrás, no habrá relevo ni sucesion de los chinos ni nada de eso.


Por otro lado, con la cantidad de $ que tienen los chinos se podrian comprar medio EEUU y aun asi les sobraria dinero. Y quien dice EEUU dice Europa, que el $ cada vez está mas fuerte.

Mad Max:
El peor escenario posible. Mejor no probarlo.

Originalmente Escrito por Eddy
El madmaxismo es el estadio superior del burbujismo.

Iniciado por Eslacaña

Y digo yo, si los chinos tienen tanta pasta amontonada, porque no se dedican a darle una alegría a su gente, mejoran sus condiciones devida y de paso compran algo más que empresas europeas o americanas... A veces la avaricia rompe el saco. Personalmente me da igual que los chinos se peguen la hostia padre. A los europeos no nos iba afectar mucho y a los americanos les dan una alegría de repente su deuda se reduciría a cero, eso sí a costa de tener un dalor que vale menos que la mondea de Zimbaue. A fin de cuentas para lo q compran lso chinos fuera...
Para que luego digan que los americanos son gilipollas y que su imperio está hundido. Cuando los demás vamos ellos ya vienen de vuelta.

Iniciado por Negrofuturo

Eso no es tanta pasta; no llega al doble del PIB español; de comprar Usa, nada de nada,... ni media USA tampoco.

Iniciado por tramperoloco

Yo que los chinos usaría algunos de esos dólares en comprar empresas de tencnología USA y de paso a algunos cientificos , como en su dia hicieron estos con los alemanes despues de la WWII.

Iniciado por Eslacaña

Y digo yo, si los chinos tienen tanta pasta amontonada, porque no se dedican a darle una alegría a su gente, mejoran sus condiciones devida y de paso compran algo más que empresas europeas o americanas... A veces la avaricia rompe el saco. Personalmente me da igual que los chinos se peguen la hostia padre. A los europeos no nos iba afectar mucho y a los americanos les dan una alegría de repente su deuda se reduciría a cero, eso sí a costa de tener un dalor que vale menos que la mondea de Zimbaue. A fin de cuentas para lo q compran lso chinos fuera...
Para que luego digan que los americanos son gilipollas y que su imperio está hundido. Cuando los demás vamos ellos ya vienen de vuelta.