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Antiguo 09-dic-2011, 15:06
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The UK now has a once in a lifetime opportunity to renegotiate its relationship with the EU on the basis of trade and not politics
There have been some seminal moments in the history of the European Union, and the prime minister's wielding of the veto last night may turn out to be one of them. We are on the cusp of a once in a lifetime opportunity to recast our relationship with the EU for the better. The prime minister must now seize this moment.
This fundamental renegotiation of our relationship needs to be based on free trade, competitiveness and growth, and not on political union and dead-weight regulation. This is not some grand utopian vision – it exists today. Switzerland in particular has an excellent relationship with the EU, enjoys easy access to its markets without burdensome regulation, and prospers as a result.
Such a relationship would reflect the fact that the British electorate in 1975 voted for a free-trade area and not a political union. It would recognise the fact that people are fed up with mindless interference from the EU; that our businesses, especially SMEs, are fed up with the endless tide of EU regulations which hamper their competiveness; and that taxpayers are fed up with the costs of EU membership – some £40bn over the next seven years. It would also reflect the fact that the Conservative party is increasingly fed up of promises to "rein in the EU", only for yet more sovereignty to be parcelled off to Brussels.
Talk of the repatriation of powers would not be my first option. Our record on this matter is not a happy one. Much was made of our opt-out of the working time directive. Yet it has been brought back via the back door, to the extent that we are yet again seeking concessions from the EU.
Instead, we need a fundamental renegotiation of our relationship with the EU. This relationship would recognise that we want good relations with our European neighbours, but that it would be in our interest to better engage with the faster-growing world outside the EU.
There has been no shortage of myths surrounding this debate. Our line is that our prime objective must be to save the Euro. People are finally realising the concept is fundamentally flawed: binding divergent economies into a single currency without a fiscal union is, and was, a mistake. You can not have monetary union without fiscal union. Eurozone leaders are now waking up to this fact.
But if the concept was flawed, so has the proposed solution thus far. Without fundamentally addressing the core cause of the problem – which is a lack of competitiveness – proposed solutions will remain sticking plasters. The only action that can provide medium-term relief will be if the ECB becomes the lender of last resort and starts the printing presses, in order to buy distressed eurozone debt. Perhaps talk of greater controls and discipline as part of a fiscal union is a precursor to persuading the German people to accept this course of action despite its inflationary risks.
Talk of disaster if the euro were to break up is over-egged. We hear it mostly from the eurozone leaders themselves. Perhaps this is because they see the Euro as a vital step towards the real objective, which is political union. The evidence suggests otherwise. Since 1945, there have been over 80 cases where countries have left a currency union: in the vast majority of cases, those countries have benefited.
The eurozone would be no exception. The likes of Greece and Italy would benefit from devaluation, as this would make their economies more competitive. Slavish adherence to the euro closes this option, thereby resulting in more severe austerity packages. This can not be good economics at a time when consumers and governments are already struggling to par down debts. If the Euro were to fragment, consumers would still want their German cars and their French wine, not to mention Greek holidays – which of course would be cheaper come devaluation.
One other factor that is conveniently missed. Those pedalling the euro story claim that it would be a disaster if debt had to be written down. But the market has already significantly written down that debt. Weak prospects are already reflected in prices.
Then we are being told that this summit can only serve to save the euro. That there can be no other discussions. But the objective to save the Euro and our wish to discuss a new relationship are by no means mutually exclusive. If the 17 – or the 23 – wish to pursue their own agenda, including fiscal union, then let them. But this is no reason why we can not pursue a new relationship.
Finally, suggestions that the drive towards fiscal and political union by the eurozone does not really affect us is poppycock. Such a treaty within a treaty will fundamentally and materially affect our relationship with the EU. For a start, the institutions of the EU will be used by this redefined centre, and will be slanted accordingly. Early indications suggest a referendum will be needed – and expected by the British people.
We are told this is not the right time to renegotiate our position. But then it has never been the right time during the last 40 years. If now is not the time, it never will be – not whilst the euro is in existence. To suggest that we will be able to repatriate powers sometime in the future defies our experience of the last 40 years. This is the defining moment. The prime minister has been bold enough to wield the veto, but this is the beginning of the process, not the end. He must now rise to the challenge.
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Antiguo 09-dic-2011, 15:10
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Creo que es al revés hamijo conservador, pero bueno, tú como si na .
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Antiguo 09-dic-2011, 15:12
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En UK no hay morcillas. quiza porque Burgos está en España. los ingleses cocinan unas salchichas que no tiene nada que ver nuestras morcillas de Burgos
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Antiguo 09-dic-2011, 15:20
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Well, Europe has had its big summit and announced A HUGE NEW PACT TO FIX THE CRISIS and everyone's ecstatic and the market is soaring.
And that's great. Everyone loves a soaring market.
Of course, if the market continues to soar, it will only be because the everyone has been completely fooled and distracted by the lovely smoke and mirrors show Europe just put on.
A couple of weeks ago, you will recall, Europe really was headed toward an imminent collapse: Italian borrowing costs had spiked over 7%, with interest rates in Spain and other countries close behind. Interbank lending was seizing up. Germany was stomping its feet and refusing to do anything. The European Central Bank was refusing to do anything.
The whole Euro project, everyone agreed, was probably doomed, because of the fundamental problem of putting countries with vastly different productivity, efficiency, and financial situations on the same currency without completely integrating their budgets, taxation, and government spending.
Normally, when a country becomes a basket case and can't pay its debts, like Argentina a couple of decades ago and Greece today, the country depreciates its currency to pay back its debt with worthless paper. This depreciation may be painful, but it has the added benefit of making the country more competitive economically (the cost of its goods and services drop when measured in other currencies, thus boosting its exports, and, thereby, production). This is the way countries have managed their economies since time immemorial, and it is the way most will continue to manage them.
But then along came the Euro experiment.
Under the Euro, economic basket cases like Greece would operate under the same currencies as juggernauts like Germany.
What could go wrong?
Well, what could go wrong--and what many people predicted would go wrong--would be that Greece, et al, would continue to be basket cases and ultimately need to default on their debts by depreciating their currencies, but that wouldn't be able to depreciate their currencies because they couldn't print money.
And that's what did go wrong.
But now Europe says it has solved the problem!
Now, Europe announced today, countries in the Euro-zone will take more seriously their obligations under the Eurozone treaty. They will NOT run big deficits. And if they DO run big deficits, they will be FORCED to cut their spending. And this new commitment to fiscal discipline will save Europe and keep everyone in line.
Um, okay.
The truth, of course, is that European countries in the Eurozone were already obligated not to run huge deficits. And Greece did anyway.
And then Italy, Spain, et al, began to run big deficits, too--deficits that will balloon as their borrowing costs rise.
In other words, despite the restrictions of the original Euro treaty, countries are going ahead and violating it.
So, what, exactly, is going to suddenly make European countries not violate the new treaty? Angry Angela Merkel?
(Answer: Nothing.)
And let us suppose that somehow, magically, the new treaty DOES force everyone in the Eurozone to chop spending and get fiscally disciplined, the way Germany wants everyone to be.
Well, then the Eurozone economy will immediately collapse.
How do we know that?
Because the moment Greece tried to fix its problems by enacting "austerity," its economy immediately collapsed. As spending shrank, GDP shrank. And as GDP shrank, tax revenue shrank. And as tax revenue shrank, the deficit ballooned. And as the deficit ballooned, Greece had to cut more spending. And so on.
As hedge-fund manager Mark Dow explained on Yahoo Daily Ticker this morning (video up soon), Europe's new fiscal (spending) agreement doesn't fix the problem because Europe's problem is not a fiscal (spending) problem. Europe's problem is that countries with wildly different economies are being forced to operate with the same currency--without having a mechanism in place in which the rich countries continually fund the poor countries the Central Bank can print unlimited amounts of money to bail everyone out.
THAT is Europe's problem.
And until Europe solves THAT problem, all this crap about new, tougher budget controls is just smoke and mirrors.
It's not that today's agreement doesn't contain some minor positives. It does. But As Mark Dow also put it on YDT this morning, Europe is like a drowning man who keeps bobbing to the surface before he goes down for the last time.
After the new height of the crisis two weeks ago, in which it looked like Europe might be going down for the last time, Europe has bobbed back to the surface.
But unless or until Europe fixes the real problem, this latest trip to the surface will be brief, and then it will keep on drowning.
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Antiguo 09-dic-2011, 15:22
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En UK no hay morcillas. quiza porque Burgos está en España. los ingleses cocinan unas salchichas que no tiene nada que ver nuestras morcillas de Burgos

Se llama Black Pudding y te lo ponen frito en el English Breakfast

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Antiguo 09-dic-2011, 15:24
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Creo que es al revés hamijo conservador, pero bueno, tú como si na .

El verdadero titular debiera ser:

El Reino Unido teme que todas sus empresas y bancos se vayan a Europa, al quedarse el Reino Unido fuera de los centros de decisión.
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Antiguo 09-dic-2011, 15:28
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Well, Europe has had its big summit and announced A HUGE NEW PACT TO FIX THE CRISIS and everyone's ecstatic and the market is soaring.
And that's great. Everyone loves a soaring market.
Of course, if the market continues to soar, it will only be because the everyone has been completely fooled and distracted by the lovely smoke and mirrors show Europe just put on.
A couple of weeks ago, you will recall, Europe really was headed toward an imminent collapse: Italian borrowing costs had spiked over 7%, with interest rates in Spain and other countries close behind. Interbank lending was seizing up. Germany was stomping its feet and refusing to do anything. The European Central Bank was refusing to do anything.
The whole Euro project, everyone agreed, was probably doomed, because of the fundamental problem of putting countries with vastly different productivity, efficiency, and financial situations on the same currency without completely integrating their budgets, taxation, and government spending.
Normally, when a country becomes a basket case and can't pay its debts, like Argentina a couple of decades ago and Greece today, the country depreciates its currency to pay back its debt with worthless paper. This depreciation may be painful, but it has the added benefit of making the country more competitive economically (the cost of its goods and services drop when measured in other currencies, thus boosting its exports, and, thereby, production). This is the way countries have managed their economies since time immemorial, and it is the way most will continue to manage them.
But then along came the Euro experiment.
Under the Euro, economic basket cases like Greece would operate under the same currencies as juggernauts like Germany.
What could go wrong?
Well, what could go wrong--and what many people predicted would go wrong--would be that Greece, et al, would continue to be basket cases and ultimately need to default on their debts by depreciating their currencies, but that wouldn't be able to depreciate their currencies because they couldn't print money.
And that's what did go wrong.
But now Europe says it has solved the problem!
Now, Europe announced today, countries in the Euro-zone will take more seriously their obligations under the Eurozone treaty. They will NOT run big deficits. And if they DO run big deficits, they will be FORCED to cut their spending. And this new commitment to fiscal discipline will save Europe and keep everyone in line.
Um, okay.
The truth, of course, is that European countries in the Eurozone were already obligated not to run huge deficits. And Greece did anyway.
And then Italy, Spain, et al, began to run big deficits, too--deficits that will balloon as their borrowing costs rise.
In other words, despite the restrictions of the original Euro treaty, countries are going ahead and violating it.
So, what, exactly, is going to suddenly make European countries not violate the new treaty? Angry Angela Merkel?
(Answer: Nothing.)
And let us suppose that somehow, magically, the new treaty DOES force everyone in the Eurozone to chop spending and get fiscally disciplined, the way Germany wants everyone to be.
Well, then the Eurozone economy will immediately collapse.
How do we know that?
Because the moment Greece tried to fix its problems by enacting "austerity," its economy immediately collapsed. As spending shrank, GDP shrank. And as GDP shrank, tax revenue shrank. And as tax revenue shrank, the deficit ballooned. And as the deficit ballooned, Greece had to cut more spending. And so on.
As hedge-fund manager Mark Dow explained on Yahoo Daily Ticker this morning (video up soon), Europe's new fiscal (spending) agreement doesn't fix the problem because Europe's problem is not a fiscal (spending) problem. Europe's problem is that countries with wildly different economies are being forced to operate with the same currency--without having a mechanism in place in which the rich countries continually fund the poor countries the Central Bank can print unlimited amounts of money to bail everyone out.
THAT is Europe's problem.
And until Europe solves THAT problem, all this crap about new, tougher budget controls is just smoke and mirrors.
It's not that today's agreement doesn't contain some minor positives. It does. But As Mark Dow also put it on YDT this morning, Europe is like a drowning man who keeps bobbing to the surface before he goes down for the last time.
After the new height of the crisis two weeks ago, in which it looked like Europe might be going down for the last time, Europe has bobbed back to the surface.
But unless or until Europe fixes the real problem, this latest trip to the surface will be brief, and then it will keep on drowning.

Los yankies de Business Insider y su propaganda con aroma a pañal cagado. ¿Cuánto falta para que le den por culo a la libra y al USD? Bastante han prolongado la agonía de ambas currencies. Se pongan como se pongan, presionen por donde presionen, les va a estallar por algún lado ese montón de mierda escondido y bien disimulado bajo la alfombra. Ya falta menos.
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Antiguo 09-dic-2011, 15:36
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vyk vyk está desconectado
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Para Cameron. La va a necesitar.
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Oh! Señor Merrick, usted no es un hombre elefante… usted es Romeo. El hombre elefante.

La muerte no es triste. Lo triste es que la gente...no sepa vivir. El guerrero pacífico.

Los derechos no se adquieren por defecto; se ganan luchando...y luego se defienden luchando.
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Antiguo 09-dic-2011, 15:38
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The UK now has a once in a lifetime opportunity to renegotiate its relationship with the EU on the basis of trade and not politics
There have been some seminal moments in the history of the European Union, and the prime minister's wielding of the veto last night may turn out to be one of them. We are on the cusp of a once in a lifetime opportunity to recast our relationship with the EU for the better. The prime minister must now seize this moment.
This fundamental renegotiation of our relationship needs to be based on free trade, competitiveness and growth, and not on political union and dead-weight regulation. This is not some grand utopian vision – it exists today. Switzerland in particular has an excellent relationship with the EU, enjoys easy access to its markets without burdensome regulation, and prospers as a result.
Such a relationship would reflect the fact that the British electorate in 1975 voted for a free-trade area and not a political union. It would recognise the fact that people are fed up with mindless interference from the EU; that our businesses, especially SMEs, are fed up with the endless tide of EU regulations which hamper their competiveness; and that taxpayers are fed up with the costs of EU membership – some £40bn over the next seven years. It would also reflect the fact that the Conservative party is increasingly fed up of promises to "rein in the EU", only for yet more sovereignty to be parcelled off to Brussels.
Talk of the repatriation of powers would not be my first option. Our record on this matter is not a happy one. Much was made of our opt-out of the working time directive. Yet it has been brought back via the back door, to the extent that we are yet again seeking concessions from the EU.
Instead, we need a fundamental renegotiation of our relationship with the EU. This relationship would recognise that we want good relations with our European neighbours, but that it would be in our interest to better engage with the faster-growing world outside the EU.
There has been no shortage of myths surrounding this debate. Our line is that our prime objective must be to save the Euro. People are finally realising the concept is fundamentally flawed: binding divergent economies into a single currency without a fiscal union is, and was, a mistake. You can not have monetary union without fiscal union. Eurozone leaders are now waking up to this fact.
But if the concept was flawed, so has the proposed solution thus far. Without fundamentally addressing the core cause of the problem – which is a lack of competitiveness – proposed solutions will remain sticking plasters. The only action that can provide medium-term relief will be if the ECB becomes the lender of last resort and starts the printing presses, in order to buy distressed eurozone debt. Perhaps talk of greater controls and discipline as part of a fiscal union is a precursor to persuading the German people to accept this course of action despite its inflationary risks.
Talk of disaster if the euro were to break up is over-egged. We hear it mostly from the eurozone leaders themselves. Perhaps this is because they see the Euro as a vital step towards the real objective, which is political union. The evidence suggests otherwise. Since 1945, there have been over 80 cases where countries have left a currency union: in the vast majority of cases, those countries have benefited.
The eurozone would be no exception. The likes of Greece and Italy would benefit from devaluation, as this would make their economies more competitive. Slavish adherence to the euro closes this option, thereby resulting in more severe austerity packages. This can not be good economics at a time when consumers and governments are already struggling to par down debts. If the Euro were to fragment, consumers would still want their German cars and their French wine, not to mention Greek holidays – which of course would be cheaper come devaluation.
One other factor that is conveniently missed. Those pedalling the euro story claim that it would be a disaster if debt had to be written down. But the market has already significantly written down that debt. Weak prospects are already reflected in prices.
Then we are being told that this summit can only serve to save the euro. That there can be no other discussions. But the objective to save the Euro and our wish to discuss a new relationship are by no means mutually exclusive. If the 17 – or the 23 – wish to pursue their own agenda, including fiscal union, then let them. But this is no reason why we can not pursue a new relationship.
Finally, suggestions that the drive towards fiscal and political union by the eurozone does not really affect us is poppycock. Such a treaty within a treaty will fundamentally and materially affect our relationship with the EU. For a start, the institutions of the EU will be used by this redefined centre, and will be slanted accordingly. Early indications suggest a referendum will be needed – and expected by the British people.
We are told this is not the right time to renegotiate our position. But then it has never been the right time during the last 40 years. If now is not the time, it never will be – not whilst the euro is in existence. To suggest that we will be able to repatriate powers sometime in the future defies our experience of the last 40 years. This is the defining moment. The prime minister has been bold enough to wield the veto, but this is the beginning of the process, not the end. He must now rise to the challenge.

El foro es de lengua española, haga vd el favor de escribir en dicho idioma.
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Antiguo 09-dic-2011, 15:39
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En UK no hay morcillas. quiza porque Burgos está en España. los ingleses cocinan unas salchichas que no tiene nada que ver nuestras morcillas de Burgos

Escriba Reino unido en vez de UK, que estamos en España.
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